Scotts stabilizer on late model

[D36-108A]

I posted this in the Products forum and now I realize the KDX forum might be better. (Sorry, newbie.) Please read the thread if you're using a Scotts stabilizer on a 95 or later:

Scotts stabilizer trouble on late model KDX

 

[canyncarvr]

You might paste the URL into your post.........

Kinda like this???

http://dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67390

There are several issues...

1. Sloppy mount.

If you're referring to the fact that the scotts has trouble with the isolation bushings on the kdx bars, that's a known issue. Scotts says in their instructions (included in the unit I put on my buddy's exc a couple months back) that such bushings can DAMAGE the stabilizer.

So...change 'em! Put in a high durometer bushing (scotts has 'em), or replace them with aluminum cones. I don't know why you'd want the latter, but I've read posts saying some have. If you've ever experienced the arm numbing buzz of a solidly mounted handlebar (like the pumpkin exc), you'll immediately understand why those bushings are there.

2. Steering exceeds damping

That's the design of the stabilizer. You don't WANT damping over the full steering range.

.....you DO know the sweep is adjustable, right? Using the brass screws on the side of the unit? And you have adjusted it to the widest arc (if that's what you want) and it still doesn't suit?? You must slamming some HUGE delfecting objects!!

While the scotts unit has some great features (hi and low speed circuits for example), it has some problems, too. #1 is how far away the damping action is (and THROUGH some fluffy spongy bushings) from the impact point. There is a LOT of steel, tubing, fork parts from <impact> to <damp>.

The WER doesn't do that. And that's what you'll find on most kdxs. A WER.

 

[D36-108A]

Aw man I went to the trouble of coding the URL and you'd prefer plain text? Oh well. Maybe you just didn't notice it was a link because the board-ware doesn't show it as one. Anyway...

It seems slop in the mount is my problem. The post just doesn't stay solidly vertical and therefore doesn't always maintain 100% contact with the damper arm. But I'll go check and see how much play the bar mounts allow; that could be part of it.

Perhaps I wasn't clear about the steering travel. Scotts documentation repeatedly warned about not using the damper as a steering stop. That is, you can't let the bars turn so far that you let the damper arm crash against its limit of travel. The KDX steering stops don't stop before the damper arm does. This is all irrespective of whatever actual damping action may or may not be happening.

The adjustable sweep, IIRC, controls the range of damping action but doesn't prevent you from breaking the unit by exceeding its limit of range.

Most KDXs may use the WER, and/or it may be a better stabilizer, but I'd like to use the Scotts, carrying it over from other, non-exclusive applications. (And, I should add, these applications work better than my 96 KDX application.) I'd like to make what I have work right, rather than make another huge investment.

 

[canyncarvr]

Sorry. My error. I'm used to seeing things like...'go <here>. The link does show if you put the mouse on it. It didn't occur to me to even try it! Yeah..some sorta hilite would be good.....

I understand what you're saying about 'sweep' now. The arc supplied by the arm on the damper is what determines that, isn't it? Regardless of the mount (it's just at 90º to the damper)?

I've only seen the ktm install. Does the kdx mount go over the steering stem frame tube? If so...did you file the weld flash off the tube to allow for a deep enough and 'square' fit? The ktm required a bit of grinding. And the supplied delrin shield was nowhere close to being the right height. It had be massaged some for a correct fit.

If the post doesn't 'stay' at 90º you're going to give the scotts fits!

You could drill/tap the stops on the kdx to narrow 'em up some.

 

[D36-108A]

Now we're on the same page.

I don't know what physically determines the beyond-the-breaking-point of the arc. I just want to stay away from it.

I kludged up some additional steering stop of some kind years ago and it broke in a nasty race start crash. Drilling and tapping some adjustable steering stops seems to be the right thing to do.

My KTM has adjustable steering stops straight from the factory. It also kind of blows that it's got so little usuable steering arc when adjusted for the Scotts.

Jeez, the more I think of it, the less I like the Scotts and all of the adaptations required for it. Well at least it's perfect on my CR250, which needs it the most.

 

[canyncarvr]

So...the CR has the same '..little useable arc..' with the scotts on it? If not, how then is it different? Maybe it's just the way the CR is ridden?

Does 'don't know what..' mean you don't know how CLOSE you are to the physical stops? Don't know if this is applicable, but I'd make a felt pen mark on the damper with no post to know where that point was. Then, with the post attached and the steering at the stops I could see that I had plenty of room.....or not. If not, then something needs to change.

Still..the post moving part. What about the weld at the tube? And does the post clamp sit far enough down on the tube? On the ktm install you can see the post flex as the bars are moved, but it ain't movin' on the frame!

BTW..although the slow speed of the scotts is something easily felt on the bars (and seen via the flexing post) when moving the bars back and forth, the high speed (actually riding) damping is something you don't even notice. The way it should be.

In that way, there's a noticeable difference 'tween the scotts and the wer.

Yeah...the adjustable/replaceable stops on the ktm are nice. I think my riding buddy's stayed straight for almost a few weeks!! ;)

 

[D36-108A]

The CR250 application of the Scotts is perfect. Mount is stable, and the CR's steering arc doesn't exceed the Scotts' arc.

Scotts e-mailed be back and said production differences could cause problems, especially the KDX's weld. I do recall filing the weld to get the mounting bracket on. I'll re-examine it and see if I can make it fit better with more filing. If I ever come across a welder I'll just have it done right. He also said bikes differ in their steering stops.

 

[canyncarvr]

On the ktm 'kit' scotts included the delrin shield I mentioned and of course there is the oem shield. You have two choices.

IF the bolt-on-post was NOT fit on a fairly well-prepared (filed down far enough), the shield would not fit. If the post bracket is .250 (example) and it fits at least that far down on the steering tube and that fit is 'smooth' all the way around (no protruding weld goobers), you should be good to go. I'm assuming the diameter of the post bracket is correct. Certainly it has to be able to give a good squeeze to the tube.

I realize that states the obvious...but I don't see how, IF all of the preceeding applies that you can have a wobbly post.

....and you're sure it's not the hannelbar bushings?

re: 'doesn't stay solidly vertical and therefore doesn't always maintain 100% contact with the damper arm'. Even with the post height properly adjusted?

There's gotta be an answer here. I wanna know what it is!! ;)

 

[D36-108A]

My KDX mount kit didn't have a shield. What OEM shield? Upper steering head?

 

[canyncarvr]

Yes.
I ended up massaging one or the other of 'em to fit. Seems one was too narrow to do any good (guess that would be the supplied piece) and the other (orig) was too wide.

Presumeably the kdx piece fit ok? Certainly if it's too wide to fit right (not enough/no clearance), your steering is going to be awful.

 

[jc]

I HAVE A SCOTTS ON A 96 KDX WITH PRO TAPERS AND HAVE HAD NO TROUBLE WITH IT AT ALL. I DID WELD THE "POST" ON TO THE HEAD TUBE AND DIDN'T RELY ON THE BOLT TO KEEP IT TIGHT.

 

[knobbytracks]

D36-108A,
I'm not familiar with the mount of the Scotts but I just mounted a GPR unit on my '01 200 and the pinch bolt for the post mount was hitting the nut on the underside of the top triple clamp used to mount the handlebar clamps. Check the clearance of yours if applicable. this touching prevented full turning radius on my bike. The fix? I just left the pinch bolt loose, rotated bars until they stopped against the frame stops, making sure I had enough clearance then tightened the mount in that position. Hope this helps.