Man. I rebuilt my steering stem bearings this off season during bike rebuild time. Then after I got about 300 miles of spring riding in I took them apart and regreased them for the drier summer season. I got a couple rides in and when I was washing the bike I noticed the notchy feeling when turning te bike on the stand! Apparently when I reassembled it I musta tightened them a bit too much and wore them a bit. I loosened the stem and they seemed fine, but I got some funly steering problems that I'm not sure was related to them or not. So I decided to tighten them just a bit and they are still notchy..So I got new bearings and I guess I'll press them in this weekend. Dammit! I have been so careful to keep them lubed and I still screwed them up! So heads up1 Lube them and only tighten the serrated nut FINGER TIGHT or they puke on you. OK...I'm better now thanks for letting me vent. But I'm anal about bike maint and this really frosts my buns! :ugg: :(
Steering stem bearings...grrr..
- Thread starter Fred T
- Start date
Fred: just a thought? I was looking @ jr's bike last night and was replaceing the fuel tank vent hose. then it dawned on me the fork tube is hollow. is the fuel or water damaging the lower bearing? is this why KDX's cant's keep lower fork bearing's? I don't remember if there's weep holes for the over flow to come out of the tube. just a thought.
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- Oct 28, 2001
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As much as I lay my bike down, this could be a big problem. :eek:
As fanatical as you are Fred about maintenance, I can't believe that you're about to replace your second set (?) of bearings. Does a fair amount of gas really slosh out of the breather tube during normal riding, because I don't think you're laying your bike down that often. If so, then it makes sense then that the gas could be washing out the grease.
I noticed that Jeff Allen had some sort of short metal breather valve sticking out of his fuel cap instead of a tube. Does anyone know where these can be found? I checked Dennis Kirk and Rocky Mnt, but no luck.
On a related note, I think that I am going to put a zerk fitting in the steering stem. Some concerns are that with that much grease in the stem, the spooge leakage might be pretty messy, but I'm going to use some really thick marine grease that will hopefully stay put.
- Bill
As fanatical as you are Fred about maintenance, I can't believe that you're about to replace your second set (?) of bearings. Does a fair amount of gas really slosh out of the breather tube during normal riding, because I don't think you're laying your bike down that often. If so, then it makes sense then that the gas could be washing out the grease.
I noticed that Jeff Allen had some sort of short metal breather valve sticking out of his fuel cap instead of a tube. Does anyone know where these can be found? I checked Dennis Kirk and Rocky Mnt, but no luck.
On a related note, I think that I am going to put a zerk fitting in the steering stem. Some concerns are that with that much grease in the stem, the spooge leakage might be pretty messy, but I'm going to use some really thick marine grease that will hopefully stay put.
- Bill
- Oct 28, 2001
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I read a discussion of this in some other post.
Although it would be a waste of a lot of grease, couldn't you just pump up the stem tube with grease until it starts coming out either end? I would think that the grease would find it's way into every nook and cranny before it started coming out the ends.
It would definitely be an experiment, but if it didn't work, just go back to cleaning/repacking manually. If it did work, it'd be a real time saver.
What do you think? :think:
What are your thoughts on the speculation that gas is dripping down the stem tube and washing away the grease?
- Bill
Although it would be a waste of a lot of grease, couldn't you just pump up the stem tube with grease until it starts coming out either end? I would think that the grease would find it's way into every nook and cranny before it started coming out the ends.
It would definitely be an experiment, but if it didn't work, just go back to cleaning/repacking manually. If it did work, it'd be a real time saver.
What do you think? :think:
What are your thoughts on the speculation that gas is dripping down the stem tube and washing away the grease?
- Bill
- Oct 28, 2001
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By one way I am assuming the one way allows flow into the tank, not out.
This might be fine, but would there be any problems or adverse effects with the fact that the pressure in the tank can't vent? Other than a bulging tank sitting idle in the sun, what about the possible change in pressuration and it's effect on carberation/fuel flow?
I imagine that you could get a valve with a pressure release above a certain pressure so you could leave it in the sun.
Just wondering...
P.S. I believe that the breather tube on a 2002 220R is bi-directional. Could be wrong....
- Bill
This might be fine, but would there be any problems or adverse effects with the fact that the pressure in the tank can't vent? Other than a bulging tank sitting idle in the sun, what about the possible change in pressuration and it's effect on carberation/fuel flow?
I imagine that you could get a valve with a pressure release above a certain pressure so you could leave it in the sun.
Just wondering...
P.S. I believe that the breather tube on a 2002 220R is bi-directional. Could be wrong....
- Bill
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You put the zerk in the middle of the steering head and fill the cavity with grease.Yes,it does take quite a bit of grease,and yes some will squirt out top and bottom grease seals.Don't apply too much pressure,and you will be fine.
The bottom bearing is usually the first to go.Pressure washing can inject water into the stem,through the seals and sits in the bottom of the stem.If you have never greased your bearings,it won't take long before the bearing wears out.
The bottom bearing is usually the first to go.Pressure washing can inject water into the stem,through the seals and sits in the bottom of the stem.If you have never greased your bearings,it won't take long before the bearing wears out.
canyncarvr
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- Oct 14, 1999
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It's a long way from the bottom of the stem (where any topsy-turvy overflow would exit) clear 'round the clamp then up to the bearing. Fluid to any extent flowing out of the stem is going to following gravity in the first place...which is AWAY from the bearing.
Besides all that, if gasoline was washing the grease out of the bearing, you'd sure be smelling it when you took it apart.
I'd question the put-together, as Fred said in the first place.
You ARE rotating the stem assy back and forth as you initally tighten the spanner, right? Same as a tapered wheel bearing on an auto axle. It's initially tightened to only a few inch pounds to set the bearing..THEN it's loosened and retightened by hand.
Yeah...the vent does 'leak' (you'd better hope). Filler'up good, take the old girl out for a good caning (sez andrew ;) )...look at your front fender and you'll see 'weepage'.
Besides all that, if gasoline was washing the grease out of the bearing, you'd sure be smelling it when you took it apart.
I'd question the put-together, as Fred said in the first place.
You ARE rotating the stem assy back and forth as you initally tighten the spanner, right? Same as a tapered wheel bearing on an auto axle. It's initially tightened to only a few inch pounds to set the bearing..THEN it's loosened and retightened by hand.
Yeah...the vent does 'leak' (you'd better hope). Filler'up good, take the old girl out for a good caning (sez andrew ;) )...look at your front fender and you'll see 'weepage'.
canyncarvr
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Maybe my bike is different? ;)
The steering stem is hollow. It is press-fit into the bottom clamp. The bottom bearing (the one that goes away) is pressed onto that stem...the one that's hollow.
The gas vent tube goes into the HOLLOW steering stem. Yeah..the tube may well end 'past' the top bearing, and 'above' the bottom bearing...but it's also separated by about 1/4" thick steel of the steering stem.
Oh..the whole grease/zerk thing for the steering head involves putting the fitting into the frame between the two bearings, and the entire space (between the frame and the stem) is filled with grease. That will grease the two bearings fine.....will also make a HUGE mess, with grease comin' out all over the place.
- Oct 28, 2001
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You may very well be right. I am going off memory from a one-time regreasing. My bike is outside in a trailer, I'm inside with a broken collarbone, so I haven't actually taken a closer look yet.
So assuming that the gas can never really wash away the grease, I'm curious as to why Fred is having bearing problems. Can it only be attributed to overtightening of the stem bolt?
RE: Zerk fitting.... Have you tried this, or know someone who has? I definitely don't want a grease sieve on my hands, but would like to hear from anyone that has successfully done this on a KDX.
I'm always looking to learn from other's experiences! :D
- Bill
So assuming that the gas can never really wash away the grease, I'm curious as to why Fred is having bearing problems. Can it only be attributed to overtightening of the stem bolt?
RE: Zerk fitting.... Have you tried this, or know someone who has? I definitely don't want a grease sieve on my hands, but would like to hear from anyone that has successfully done this on a KDX.
I'm always looking to learn from other's experiences! :D
- Bill
- Oct 28, 2001
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I have read posts that say it works great, and others that say it's a big mess. I imagine that it works fine as long as you use the right type of grease.
Once I'm able, I am going to do it. There's no downside in trying it anyway.
- Bill
Once I'm able, I am going to do it. There's no downside in trying it anyway.
- Bill
- Thread starter
- #22
It's hollow all the way through like CC said, the bearing had plenty of grease on it so that's not the problem. I think this last time I just didn't get it back together right. I didn't know about wiggling the stem back and forth as you hand tighten the crown nut or what ever you call that thing. So to get this right I do that and then loosen it and tighten it again by hand? Ya, that's where I screwed up because I left it tight instead of backing it off after setting the bearing and getting it hand tight. THAT won't happen again and this baby will last for a long time I think! :scream:
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canyncarvr
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bigfoot: Yah..I know what you mean about the talking to yurself part..
Still, as hard as it may be to accept (it is for me...often!), one man's gourmet is another man's garbage.
No, I haven't done this to my bike. I have spoken with a couple that have, and neither of them thought it was a great idea after it was done. In their opinion(s) ..and I agree (so what?): The area needing to be pressurized with grease is too big. Takes too much grease.
The corresponding leaking/seeping/weeping from the head makes too much of a mess.
The general opinion was, 'Not worth it.'
I'm not bashing the idea. Like I said, I haven't done it...cannot speak from the standpoint of, 'WORKS FOR ME!!' ......or.....'POOP IDEA'.
Look at it like gas (or the bottom shock bearing)...it's just something you need to buy/replace/fix/refill to take a FINEly tuned machine and beat whollee he(( out of it.
***edit***
oops. Posted to page one....missed page two.
re: Installation of tapered rollers.
I don't recall reading this in the manual or anything. It likely says more like: 1. 'Re-assemble in reverse order' or some helpful hint like that.
May be a BIT more informative. I should keep my manual 'at work' so I can check this kind of stuff out.
Still, taper roller bearings are always installed that way as far as I know. The bearing requires two separate forces, one to 'set' it, one to 'run' it. If you DON'T set it (the 'tighter' of the two), you won't have proper operating clearances, and if you don't RESET it, well, you won't have proper operating clearances. The first one squeezes grease out, seats rollers to race, the second one is the working pressure the bearing is going to be under whilst used.
Also, tapered rollers are always set while rotating as far as I've ever known. I suppose if everything was perfect, any place it would be tightened would be the same as some other place. In reality (especially if the bearing isn't new) there are going to places a bit skinnier than others, and continually rotating back and forth (just cuz you can't go all the way 'round with the stem) will resolve those differences.
Make sure you keep UPward pressure on the stem while you're doing this. Not so much as to exceed the pressure you're exerting with the spanner (natch), but not so little as to allow the 'set' pressure to go away (stem to drop) when you loosen/retighten the spanner.
Good luck. Use the best grease you can find!! Not the $1.99 tube general purpose chassis grease from wally world.
Just one more thing that raised a bit of a flag. I'm not talking about 'wiggling' anything. Use a smooth, concentric (not off-axis to the stem) motion.
Yeah...more semantics stuff...........
Still, as hard as it may be to accept (it is for me...often!), one man's gourmet is another man's garbage.
No, I haven't done this to my bike. I have spoken with a couple that have, and neither of them thought it was a great idea after it was done. In their opinion(s) ..and I agree (so what?): The area needing to be pressurized with grease is too big. Takes too much grease.
The corresponding leaking/seeping/weeping from the head makes too much of a mess.
The general opinion was, 'Not worth it.'
I'm not bashing the idea. Like I said, I haven't done it...cannot speak from the standpoint of, 'WORKS FOR ME!!' ......or.....'POOP IDEA'.
Look at it like gas (or the bottom shock bearing)...it's just something you need to buy/replace/fix/refill to take a FINEly tuned machine and beat whollee he(( out of it.
***edit***
oops. Posted to page one....missed page two.
re: Installation of tapered rollers.
I don't recall reading this in the manual or anything. It likely says more like: 1. 'Re-assemble in reverse order' or some helpful hint like that.
May be a BIT more informative. I should keep my manual 'at work' so I can check this kind of stuff out.
Still, taper roller bearings are always installed that way as far as I know. The bearing requires two separate forces, one to 'set' it, one to 'run' it. If you DON'T set it (the 'tighter' of the two), you won't have proper operating clearances, and if you don't RESET it, well, you won't have proper operating clearances. The first one squeezes grease out, seats rollers to race, the second one is the working pressure the bearing is going to be under whilst used.
Also, tapered rollers are always set while rotating as far as I've ever known. I suppose if everything was perfect, any place it would be tightened would be the same as some other place. In reality (especially if the bearing isn't new) there are going to places a bit skinnier than others, and continually rotating back and forth (just cuz you can't go all the way 'round with the stem) will resolve those differences.
Make sure you keep UPward pressure on the stem while you're doing this. Not so much as to exceed the pressure you're exerting with the spanner (natch), but not so little as to allow the 'set' pressure to go away (stem to drop) when you loosen/retighten the spanner.
Good luck. Use the best grease you can find!! Not the $1.99 tube general purpose chassis grease from wally world.
Just one more thing that raised a bit of a flag. I'm not talking about 'wiggling' anything. Use a smooth, concentric (not off-axis to the stem) motion.
Yeah...more semantics stuff...........
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- Oct 28, 2001
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Fred,
I originally bought Pennzoil marine "premium plus" grease for the EZ lube hubs on my trailer.
Descripton on tube is "multi-purpose, marine saltwater protection, washout and corrosion protection, NLGI grade #2 grease". The spec sheet is here:
http://www.pennzoil.com/TechData/pd...e/pdf/PremiumPlusMultipurposeMarineGrease.PDF
Check out the spec sheet. The grease is meant for bearings that are submerged under salt water, so I think it is pretty stuff good for our usage.
- Bill
I originally bought Pennzoil marine "premium plus" grease for the EZ lube hubs on my trailer.
Descripton on tube is "multi-purpose, marine saltwater protection, washout and corrosion protection, NLGI grade #2 grease". The spec sheet is here:
http://www.pennzoil.com/TechData/pd...e/pdf/PremiumPlusMultipurposeMarineGrease.PDF
Check out the spec sheet. The grease is meant for bearings that are submerged under salt water, so I think it is pretty stuff good for our usage.
- Bill
