The 97 CR250?

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

I landed a can't refuse offer on a rolling 97 minus the motor. It seems that 97 to 01 will work in this chassis? BUT, will I need the 97-99 top end? I sure like the idea of newer to me, and ditch the yellow crap in my garage! Big yellow old dog closeout sale coming! I will put it in the proper place, in time. Vintage Bob

 

[Matt90GT]

There is a reason that bike was parted. The 97 was SUPER rigid and most people hated them. The factory teams drilled large like 2" holes in the backside of the frame spars and then filled them frame with expandable foam to cut down on the vibration and give the frame some flex.

Sorry, dont know about the motor. I know up to 99 should swap.

 

[dirt bike dave]

I had a '99 (same first gen frame as the '97) and I am happy to report the stuff about an overly stiff frame is a bunch of magazine generated BS.

It's the suspension that needs work.

The motors are similar from '92 - '01, but the head may be different to mount the head stay.

FWIW, I loved my '99. It was a former AA rider's enduro bike, and there were plenty of guys that won Sr. and Super Senior enduro races and championships on '97 - '99 CR's. the bike was also successful as a cross country racer.

I'm a single track trail rider, and my '99 with Factory Connection suspension was plush as can be. Never a single issue with the frame being overly stiff.

IMO, if an old slow guy can ride it for 80+ miles of technical terrain in a day, the frame is not too stiff for an MX hotshot.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

I rode the bike when it came out, dial in the suspension its perfect. Guy talk, pfffft! 01 cut off, I could deal with that. I have seen new shifter cart motors from 99 to 04. And too bad them 500 motors are so darn much. If I can drop an 01 250 motor in there, sweet. I have seen some parts from 92 to death are inter changeable? Vintage Bob

 

[dirt bike dave]

FWIW, the '01 motor is thirsty and will wear piston/rings more rapidly than the more mild '99.

'97 - '98 had the powerjet carb. '99 had more mild porting and pipe.

When I bought it, my '99 had the '97 carb and ignition + the '99 cylinder and pipe, with a V-force reed block and a e-line lighting coil (acts like a flywheel weight). Very good low end for a 250 two stroke, and respectable top end.

With a first gen frame, you will want the '97 - '99 pipe. The other pipes won't mount exactly the same.

 

[Pete Payne]

Actualy 92 thru 01 will drop in . Or like some mentioned the cr500 with a little frame modding will fit .

 

[plynn41]

I'm an old guy who got reintroduced to mx this year when I bought a '97 CR250R. I don't have enough experience with other modern mx'ers to comment on how much better or worse it is. I can say I love the powerband once I got some things sorted out (thanks Dave).
Here's a serious question: How can a dirt bike chassis be too stiff? Am I to believe that bikes handle better when their chassis flex? That makes no intuitive sense to me at all.

 

[dirt bike dave]

How can a dirt bike chassis be too stiff?

You need to ask Motocross Action magazine. They lambasted the '97 CR for having too stiff a frame and the urban legend has stuck ever since. :bang:

I think MXA felt the bike was too harsh for us mortals, and would beat the MX rider into submission. Yet guys were winning enduros and cross country races on them. :coocoo:

Maybe MXA's opinions had something to do with the size of Yamaha's advertising budget?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

The 97 was the first full aluminum perimeter frame. Guy talk is just like mxa, BS! The af flexes just like all frames, different than the chrome molly, the molly flexes more, imo. So, I can put an 01 engine in it, but have to get a 97 ~99 exhaust? And, I do not believe that "rigid" 97 frame was changed until 02? Vintage Bob

 

[dirt bike dave]

And, I do not believe that "rigid" 97 frame was changed until 02? Vintage Bob

The '97 - '99 shared the exact same frame. The '00 - '01 had a slightly different frame, but it looks very similar, and was heralded by MXA as being less rigid and therefore much better, lol.

I've ridden a '99 and an '01 back to back. The '01 felt a little lighter, but that's because the '99 was a full on enduro conversion with lights, guards, etc...

 

[Matt90GT]

They shared the same designed frame, but honda made subtle changes year to year on them. 97 is a one year only frame. 98-99 is the same Honda part number. LIke I said the FACTORY teams modified the frame for more flex and less vibration.

 

[2strokerfun]

My friend just bought a '99 and the first time he took it out a couple of weeks ago, he said his handlebars started tank slapping on a straight section. Happened a second time and threw him off, breaking rib, ankle and dislocating shoulder. He briefly thought about putting on a stabilizer, or stiffening front springs etc. But decided he didn't trust it and was going to sell it. Don't know why it did this. His son had already loaded the bike up before I got to the track, so I didn't get to ride it. Wheel bearings and stem bearings seemed OK on inspection. Did some research and didn't find this was any type of noted problem with the model. Bike was low hours and looked brand new (until it flipped a few times that morning). He got a great deal on it: $900 plus medical co-pays!!
I think he just wanted a YZ (which he did and does) and subconsciously found a reason to dump the Honda (just kidding there).

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Matt, I will keep an eye out for a newer frame, up to an 99, till 01 may cause some issues? I will see. I am no where near a pro rider, now or ever. Particularly pro scuttle butt, they get paid! I remember the fuss Mcgrath allegedly had with their steel frames, he liked a particular year and that was that, before they went AF? 99% never would know the difference. Its all in the set up, and rider ability. With Jeremy in the shop, no issues. Some 22mm or less clamps are definitely in the list. All 250 and bigger frames are set up like choppers, until the last year or 2. Like I am concerned about stability at 90mph? I want that sucker to turn on a dime! I am led to believe the 01 is the ultimate motor, whats the difference between the 97~99? Bottom ends the same from 97 to 01? I know the crank is the same, and I think the cases bolting to the frame are the same? Am I correct that the difference is in the cylinder and exhaust valve? I do have a deal on a smoked 01 motor! Vintage Bob

 

[dirt bike dave]

Cylinder porting is the main difference between '97 - '01, but there are other differences in carbs, pipes and ignition. Over the full range of this motor's production from '92 - '01, there might also be minor differences in pistons and heads.

'97 - '98 had pretty agressive porting, as well as the powerjet carb which was controlled by the black box. Lots of riders love these motors.

'99 had more mild porting w/out the powerjet carb, so it's black box is different than '97 - 98. '99 is noted for having the best low end when its dialed in. The stock pipe is very good. In one of Eric's books, he mentioned many riders were faster with this motor, though it may not 'feel' as fast as the '97 - '98.

The '01 motor is well thought of because the porting delivers a broad spread of impressive power. Some folks had trouble dialing in the jetting on the '01.

Pretty sure the bottom ends and cases are all interchangeable from '92 - '01. I'll bet most if not all the powervalve parts are the same.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Thanks a lot Dave! Now for the over weight mail lady, I do not know. Their office weighs it, ships it, and she complains to me? Wow, at all the after market alien named products out there, very scary stuff, and priced accordingly. Ahh, to finally have a decent 250 again. I got the clobbered 370/400 running, the soy bean fields are freshly cut down, from 1st to 5th wfo the front wheel hovers just off the ground. But I would need a lasso to help it corner. Vintage Bob

 

[Uchytil]

I'm confused (nothing new), are you outa the vintage already - giving up the RM? I had a 96 CR250 and loved it. Can you fab one of those engines in there or are you wanting newer muscle? So you gonna run it in the over 50 vet class where all the old war horse A riders lurk?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

I had a guy smoke me on a cr480 at the grass race, I may have one in the garage shortly. The 97 was/is a chance to get cheap? It looks to be going into a clobbered 97~01. The 370/400, outstanding pull! 2 bent kick starters in a week. I do not see me hitting the ahrma circuit, that is the only place to race against other feeble turning machines. If there is a way to keep it, I sure will, But$ And the pistons dropping off is a real bummer. No parts, no ride. Vintage Bob

 

[Uchytil]

I do not see me hitting the ahrma circuit, that is the only place to race against other feeble turning machines. Vintage Bob

Michigan has it's own vintage circuit which is not AHRMA,(michiganvintagemotocross) and I'm sure they'd let you in. You're almost in Michigan anyway. Closest I came to a CR480 was in NH a guy I knew raced one.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

I know about the Michigan thing, its my closest tracks! Them guys who brought out the old BSA's and Triumph's, I felt bad for them racing against newer bikes! Come on spring at log road! Heck, my 97 project qualifies! My back likes that a lot better than the rm 370/400! Vintage Bob

 

[squale147]

i loved that bike .. remember how late honda was that year to show them...

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Is there a preferred method of restoring the original look of the aluminum? A particular media to blast? Not going down the polishing with mothers road. The outer fork cartridge is doing something crazy. Its like its blistering from the middle out? Something Florida bikes do? And the red basted sand! The 97 engine should be here any day. Fresh, we shall see. Vintage Bob

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Got the alleged 97 motor. Looks new, fresh gaskets and new top end. Pop the top off, THERE'S A FRIGGING SLEEVE, AHHHHHHHHH! The guy did send an extra cylinder, that was close. So, I can run any piston and ring set, as long as its not a chrome bore, from the Wiseco website. BUT, why on earth is there a 96 piston in it? And its over bored! Where is the place to check engine numbers? How do you tell the difference between cylinders, 97 through 01? Porting and exhaust flanges must be different? The frame is going to get a fresh 800 grit wiping, and the swingarm polished. I got talked out of the powder coatings. Vintage Bob

 

[smahala1286]

nice! Sounds like your CR project is coming along faster then mine is. Thats weird that is came with a sleeve and a 96 piston. How do you know the piston is out of a 96? Sorry I cant help with identifying cylinders. You should post up some progress pictures of your build.

 

[ulmanb]

I am pretty sure they used the same piston for many years, 96 being in the middle. Cross reference some numbers on wiseco's site to see them.

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

96 to 01 the bottom ends are the same. Not the top ends. The wiseco in mine, the numbers say its for a 96 only? Thats the breaking point on the pistons also, power valve? 96 and older, then 97 to 01. If I had a piston, and a sleeve, any auto shop would gladly punch it out, receive my money and have a nice day. Fools with tools? Too bad I have seen this trick in action, my local car speed shop, Van Senus, even knocks down the port edges! Way cheaper than having it replated? All said and done, no, its about the same price. Performance loss, and does it really let the owner go long on rerings? The only advantage I see is they can have it bored, and put an over sized piston in it? Reringing the plated cylinder on time would still be cheaper. Mine is at 67mm already, a 252. I may see how it runs, I know it will end up at Forward Motion sooner or later, 1 of them will get knocked up as far as it can go,"a 6 hour engine", and the other will run on pump gas. I will try and call Honda today and see what the engine code year relates to. And the camera, sure hope St. Nick brings a new one! Ps3 or a camera? I have to talk to him. Vintage Bob