This is AMERICA!

[kingriz1]

Ok,

How about a little history lesson, for those of you that did not make it to the third grade.

This country was founded by people who were fleeing their native lands, because of religious persecution. For those of you that don't understand that, it means that other people were trying to force their religion on them. Kind of like us forcing them to say under god or in god we trust. You remember now the Quakers. Pennsylvania all those great Americans! Ring a bell?

Separation of church and state! Do you remember that part our founding fathers came up with!?! Way before 1954 when right wing Christians made it their duty to force religion on others!

In God we trust is our national motto? Since 1954 maybe. That is the year it was added to money, and about everything else by the right wing Christian movement. Mind you most of them think that any hobbies including dirt bikes are a waste of time that could better be spent praying.

Tony eds is America a race or a country?

Now before you blow me out of the water. Let me say I agree with the jist of the letter. I believe in God. I thank God every day for what he has blessed me with. I think people need to learn the language and get with it. I don’t mind the native dress and hanging on to your roots, but as I tell my parents you dont see Scottish people wearing Kilts! This is America.

LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!! You guys don’t even know. When anyone whines in from of me I offer them a one way ticket anywhere they want to go. "Don’t like it? What the H*** are you doing here? No one invited you!" I have traveled to a few places. Namely a few in the Middle East. I would not move there for all the money in the world. I would rather be a poor hard working FREE American than a rich guy in any of those countries.

You know the tree huggers think in America we should not ride two strokes! There are more of them than there are of us I assure you. Our riding causes pollution both noise and gas. They could vote it un-American to destroy our American God given air.

Assimilate? Ok so do we assimilate the hillbillies or the wall street brokers? Aren't they both American. Speak the language? Anyone been to Cajun Louisiana lately? I cant understand a word they say.

"mah sa do say ad fo me Mardi Gras!"

It's a slippery slope my friends.

:think: :think: :think:

. I believe that they are Americans plain and simple, and should be treated as such.

Hooray for Miltonyz

MayGod (just a supreme being you can call him waht you like) bless you

 

[crkid]

Kingriz, the religious persecution you speak of meant not allowing people to practice their religions at all, not putting the word God in the Pledge. And the people that didn't like this persecution way back then didn't go complaining and make the government change, they left. See what I'm getting at?

The seperation of church and state was created to stop religious influnce in political issues. The Pledge is not a political issue so it should not be treated like one in my opinion. Sorry if this post is breaking the rules, but I couldn't contain myself.

 

[MikeT]

Originally posted by kingriz1
Christian movement. Mind you most of them think that any hobbies including dirt bikes are a waste of time that could better be spent praying.

What you talkin about Willis????? I ride. :D

 

[MikeT]

Originally posted by crkid
The seperation of church and state was created to stop religious influnce in political issues.

You got that backwards kid. Thomas Jefferson wrote that in response to a letter he recieved from a minister who was concerned that the goverment would start telling the church what they could and could not do. Please remember that the words "seperation of church and state" were only written in this letter, NOT IN THE CONSTITUTION. If you can find those words in the constitution please let me know. Otherwise, good post crkid

 

[MrLuckey]

Here here Pokie! Very well stated. Tony & Miltonyz - kudos to you guys also. Almost every piece of land on this earth has been invaded (most many times over) and taken away by marauders and more powerful cultures. Why do you think there are so many nations with recognized borders anyway?

FYI I am not saying that Indians weren't horribly mistreated by settlers and the USA but please remember that the SPANIARDS enslaved and murdered tens of thousands (probably more) in the west (Gold and Religion), the FRENCH and ENGLISH did their part too. I am talking about those countries armies folks, not settlers. About 200-350 years later I was born.......

 

[XRpredator]

Just so everyone is on the same page, here's the First Amendment to the Constitution:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Those are all the words. Nothing there that says there can't be religion in government or schools, it just says the government can't tell you which one you have to follow. Pretty straightforward if you ask me.

And as for the displacement of native peoples, well, I could file a grievance with the Revolutionaries! My family owned quite a bit of land in the Great Lakes area, but since they were Tories (loyal to the Crown), all their holdings were taken away after the Revolutionary War. :whiner:

I guess I'll just have to get over it . . . :confused:

 

[MikeT]

Thank you XR.

 

[Vic]

I was under the impression that it said something like:

No person shall be allowed to make any public reference to his religious convictions. Any such reference shall be construed as a violation of the wall of seperation between church and state.

Maybe I watch too much CNN.

 

[MikeT]

FOXNews :aj:

 

[bsmith]

This is off topic, but since KTA brought it up;-)

I would have to say the Native Americans are getting a good return. Like others have said "every civilization in history the stronger society has defeated the weaker one".
You don't see the People of Byzantine Empire trying to reclaim the land the Turks took :think:, which they took :think: which they eventually lost to some Slavic invasions, Islamic conquests, and whatever army was stronger through out Asia Minor, Northern Africa, and Greece.

Only in America do we have little Soveirgn Nations that have their own laws. For example here in Spokane one tribe bought some land and built a Casino, Now this is off the reservation. As an American I can not build a Casino in Spokane. They can sell Cigarettes and Fireworks on the reservation. I can't :think: It's illegal to have Fireworks in Spokane County, but the Spokane tribe can sell them.

Now before every jumps on my case I'm not against Native Americans, I just feel they should get over it and become part of Society, if their's no jobs on the reservation then move :eek: . I see all these advertisements for "Native American Pride" and they all are dancing around a bonfire with the traditional clothing, but when I drive thru the reservations I see no less then 10 junked out cars, piles of garbage and a run down house, where's the pride? If you don't want these items that the "American Government" gives to you, then don't take them. Live in a Tepee and gather your food and shot your game with your hand made bow!!

In Seattle they wanted to hunt whales, but didn't they harpoon it, then shot it with a 30.06 rifle. I want my tradition, yet with a modern twist.

So I wouldn't say we slaughtered the Natives, yes we made some mistakes, and yes I'm sure they made some mistakes. We currently at the Federal level spent $5 Billion a year for the Bureau of Indian Affairs and Indian Health Services this doesn't count the money the tribes get from local companies that mine, log, or farm on the reservation or the money they get from the income Dams make that are on Reservations.

Why don't we have a bureau of Mexican Affairs, didn't we take a lot of land from the Mexican natives and run them out of SoCal, SoArizona and New Mexico. Or remember the Alamo, wasn't that a stand against the mexican army?

Please before flaming me I am an Ignorant german, Irish, Scotish, American, with a twist of Native in there somewhere, and my Ignorance is bliss.

Just my one sided view, so please if I'm wrong teach me :)

 

[crkid]

Thanks for the lesson Mike. I coulda sworn that was the only thing I was gonna get right in that post. :confused:

I guess I should have payed attention more in history. :)

 

[MikeT]

No Prob kid. I found that little tidbit out AFTER I left public schools. You don't think they taught me that IN public schools......;)

 

[kingriz1]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Forcing someone to say under God or In God we trust, if forcing them to follow other religious beliefs. And is was not in the original Pledge!!!

IT WAS ADDED IN 1954 or so and now it might be taken off. The Pledge is still there. I

Again who do we assimilate? The wall street banker types in New York? The Amish? The backwoods people in Arkansas? Surfers in LA? I dont think most people would be happy if we made them wear cowboy hats and boots.

Just someone please explain who we are to assimilate. Actually the Indians were here first so feathers and a tomahawk would be fair. What about all the kids who like piercings and tattoos? I mean you old guys are gonna die off and then what? Your grandkids will be forced to pierce thier faces to assimilate the majority of society? (not that I have anything against a persons choice to do any of this.)

Also should we allow time in class for everyone to pray the way they choose as it is the American way or should we all just accept one relgion. How about we all become Baptist? Or Catholic? Or Mulsim? Yes Muslims believe in the same God and for those of you who dont know in Islam Christ will lead us all to heaven too. What about the atheist and Agnostic? A lot of Americans don't believe in any God. So who gets to decide?

None of you guys have the nads to say who we should assimilate? Step up or shut up! Who do we assimilate?

 

[MikeT]

Assimilate. I will step up. I feel we should assimilate anyone who feels their country or religion is so superior to the beliefs we hold as Americans that they need to commit violent acts here in America. You can have other beliefs and live here and not commit violent acts against Americans. You kingriz are a Muslim and you don't commit violent acts against anyone else. You don't think that the guys who commit/ted violent acts here are correct. The people who want us dead are the people who either need to be assimilated, deported or just not allowed to enter our country. There.

 

[bsmith]

I got nads, yes I do, I got nads h o w b o u t y o u :)
God
1-A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2-The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
3-A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
4-An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
5-One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
6-A very handsome man. (They must have seen me)
7-A powerful ruler or despot.

One nation under God, in God we Trust is not forcing anyone to change their lifestyle or belief, period. :eek:

If you look at the above definitions of "God" from my friend Webster, you will see it is very incompassing. I can picture a lot of groups that fall under that defination.
Their are 11 world religions. Help me out her but I believe they are Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Toaism, Shintoism, Muslim, Confucianism, and Tribal/Aboriginal/Misc or whatever else you want to call. I'm missing one :think:

I think the bulk of these beleive in definition 1 and 3, while some like Janism, Confucianism, and Toaism believe in or idiolize a person. The Tribal/Aboriginal/Misc people have looked to a power, the Gods of the Volcano, rain, fire, earth and so on. All these in some form are their God.

So One Nation, with many cultures, under God, not "A" God but whatever you want God to be to you.

 

[kingriz1]

B smith -The question was who do we assimilate.

Not the definition of God.

11 world religions? Man you are lost!! There are many more than that.

MikeT-Assimilate-a.To absorb (immigrants or a culturally distinct group) into the prevailing culture. b.To make similar; cause to resemble.


LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROLLING ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING!!!

Not annihilate! HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA LOL HAHAHAH STILL ON THE FLOOR LAUGHING

 

[MikeT]

Originally posted by kingriz1
MikeT-Assimilate-a.To absorb (immigrants or a culturally distinct group) into the prevailing culture. b.To make similar; cause to resemble.

I know what assimilate means. What I wrote was to assimilate them into our culture and to be loyal to our country, if they don't want to, then they should be deported. Exactly what are you not understanding?

 

[kingriz1]

Sorry Mike. Reading it does not sound that way.
My apologies.

 

[kingriz1]

I agree with you on that point . No doubt.

What about the Atheist and Agnostic Americans. Dont they as Americans have rights?

 

[bsmith]

Forcing someone to say under God or In God we trust, if forcing them to follow other religious beliefs. And is was not in the original Pledge!!!

My point is to your first point. The definition helps show that we don't have to Force any immigrants into "our religion", our culture. They can come to America and live the way they want and worship who they want. "God" is just a generic term and shouldn't be read as A specific God"

The 11 world religions each break down into thousands of branches, Just think how many branch out from just Christianity! This comes from my College Religion class so I can at least blame the books and professors if I'm wrong :)

 

[MikeT]

Originally posted by kingriz1
What about the Atheist and Agnostic Americans. Dont they as Americans have rights?

Yes they do have rights. Like I said before, if they don't want to say it, that's OK too. If they don't want to say it and feel they need to kill me because of it, that's wrong.

 

[XRpredator]

Hey Riz,

I figure we assimilate every immigrant to this country, but some of them make it a point to not be assimilated by being a "hyphenated" American.

Why can't everyone that lives here just be an American? It's not up to me, it's up to them.

 

[Okiewan]

Well, this is one of those, "it's interesting to read and everyone is playing nicely, but it's against the rules and will go down the toliet soon so it's closed even though I truely enjoy the subject(s)" threads.