This Really Frikken Ticks Me Off

May 10, 2007
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ok

[BAD LINK] sorry long url and i dont know how to shorten it.

this isnt the best story of it but from what i got from reading it in the paper this kid was riding his bike where he wasnt supposed to (i think im really not sure but that was the feeling i got from it) he riding home when he hit this cable that someone put up. WTF WHY DO YOU DO THAT!!! TALK TO THE PERSON dont try to frikken kill them. he put streamers on it to make it visible. oh yea real useful. put something visible like a sign.

the article i read also mentioned him comming home because of his moms birthday. i dont know if it was her birthday or if they were just celebrating it then but the freak who put it up sure gave her a good presant dont ya think!?!


what is even worse is that the guy who set up the cable isnt going to jail or anything. they said that the kid knew it was there BS most kids i know do go hey look a cable lets see how fast we can hit it.

ok my rant is over this just makes me sick who was more irresposible the 15 again 15 one year older then me 15 who was killed. or the person who put up this cable.

ok now my rant is FINALLY over sorry had to get that out
 
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FruDaddy

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I hate that the kid died, but there is no way that I have enough information to pass judgement here. Don't look at this as an opportunity to get angry.
 

allangee

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Jun 26, 2007
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It's always a bugger when someone gets hurt (or killed) riding... even worse when it's through someone else's stupidity.

Painful reminder that you ALWAYS have to take a trail slowly if you haven't been down it that day. Might be something there by accident or on purpose.

Take care all of you!

dirtbikeblogger.blogspot
 
May 10, 2007
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FruDaddy said:
I hate that the kid died, but there is no way that I have enough information to pass judgement here. Don't look at this as an opportunity to get angry.


i know

what really gets me though is how stupid people are though.
 

WoodsRider

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FruDaddy said:
Do you really want to get into this debate in this thread?

Well, this is the flame board :ohmy:

Like you stated earlier, there is not enough information in the article to make an argument for either side.
 
May 10, 2007
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im not saying your wrong i mean that people are stupid.

there shouldnt be a cable across a trail.

but the kid should not have been riding where he wasnt allowed to (if that is the case)

im not trying to start an argument.
 

FruDaddy

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True, but in light of the death, I didn't really want to say that everything in the link points to the fact that the kid would still be alive were he not riding on somebody else's land without permission. Trespassing is trespassing with or without posted signs. The landowner has every right to put up barricades (cable) to keep trespassers out. If the cable were there to do harm, I don't think that there would have been red streamers attached to it. Also, it appears from the provided link, that the land may have been used by a construction company (read something about the road being used by the owners business trucks).
Becky Pratt said:
The person who put the cable up owns a company and that trail is used for big trucks that go through.
Well, it would not be unheard of for a business to close off the entrance after working hours. I still leave the possibility open that the cable was put in place to keep the dirtbikes out, but there is nothing mentioned that indicates to me that the land owner knew that there were kids on the property at the time that the cable was placed across the road. It also seems to me that the existence of the cable was known to the boy:
Becky Pratt said:
When Michael went through it was down and on his way back he didn’t realize it was back up.
I cannot omit the fact that most of the information provided has been given by other kids claiming to be close to the deceased, and therefore are clearly biased. Oh, and he was on his way home at 8:40PM to be with his mother on her birthday :whoa:

There aren't enough facts in the article, but there is quite a bit of information given by people claiming to be this kids friends, if their information is accurate, than this kid is responsible for his own death and the property owner has done nothing wrong. Of course, I cannot verify the accuracy of the information, or the identity of it's providers, so the only reliable facts that I am aware of are that a kid rode a motorcycle into a steel cable with red streamers (which would only be there to make the cable easier to see) and has died. And that, in itself, is tragic, no matter what the cause.
 
May 10, 2007
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yea i kno most of the info is biased but if i recall one article (that i read in the newspaper) said that he rode on a abandoned trailerpark. even if he was trespassing you get fined or (maybe not sure if you can but) go to jail for a short period. maybe do community service. you dont die.

but it sucks anyway you look at it
 

FruDaddy

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There is nothing in your source that indicates that the presence of the cable has anything to do with the dirtbikes. According to the "girlfriend" the cable was there all along; it was down when the kid went in, but at 8:40PM (pretty close to sunset) it was back up. Now if it were "back up", then it must have been up in the past. Also there were red streamers on the cable, the only reasonable explanation for the streamers is visibility. Now, if I were a business owner with heavy equipment, I would secure that equipment overnight, which means that I would block the exit from the parking area. Now, a simple cable wouldn't keep people from going in on foot, but it might keep the equipment in. I'm just guessing here, but I think that this is the purpose of the cable, and it was not put there because of the dirt bikes. Personally, I would have chosen a heavy iron gate.

Having said that, were he not trespassing, then he would probably still be alive, but his death was not punishment for trespassing, it was only a side effect that could have been avoided were he paying more attention. Of course, it was getting dark, and the cable would have been difficult to see from a distance, but since it was getting dark and visiblity was low, the boy should have been riding at a slower pace. I would also think that the landowner probably feels pretty crappy about it, and we haven't heard his side of the story yet.
 

Solid State

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FruDaddy said:
True, but in light of the death, I didn't really want to say that everything in the link points to the fact that the kid would still be alive were he not riding on somebody else's land without permission. Trespassing is trespassing with or without posted signs. The landowner has every right to put up barricades (cable) to keep trespassers out. If the cable were there to do harm, I don't think that there would have been red streamers attached to it.

True, but the landowner still has plausible liability because the kid died on his land - and from an obstacle that he placed there. If there's was no clearly visible sign warning of the cable and it can be shown the cable was hard to see, the landowner is in deep doo-doo. Better check the insurance limits.
 

scooter1130

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From an article printed last week

click here


“We review motor vehicle accidents to see whether there has been criminal negligence on the part of any person. Sometimes we find that an accident is simply an accident,” Miller said. “In this case, there was no evidence to suggest it was negligent to put the cable across the lane where it was, at least not negligent in any criminal sense of the word.”

Police also found evidence that the victim “knew the cable was up, from what other people had told us,” the chief said.

On the night Lentz died, he had been riding by himself and reportedly had been rushing home to celebrate his mother’s birthday.
 

BSWIFT

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Solid State said:
True, but the landowner still has plausible liability because the kid died on his land - and from an obstacle that he placed there. If there's was no clearly visible sign warning of the cable and it can be shown the cable was hard to see, the landowner is in deep doo-doo. Better check the insurance limits.
That's a pretty broad claim. Land owners are not liable for trespassers. That's why they(we) put gates and cables up to prevent unauthorized access. Sad case.
 

FruDaddy

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Solid State said:
True, but the landowner still has plausible liability because the kid died on his land - and from an obstacle that he placed there. If there's was no clearly visible sign warning of the cable and it can be shown the cable was hard to see, the landowner is in deep doo-doo. Better check the insurance limits.
This would be one for the civil courts to decide, when the plaitiff claims that the cable was hard to see, the defendant can rebut with the red streamers being there as a visible warning sign to make it easier to see the cable. With the setting sun, and a probability of the motorcycle not having a headlight, the rider should have been going slowly enough to see the streamers (or an animal that might wander across the road). This goes back to the old piece of driving advice, never try to outrun you headlights. The insurance limits might come into the mix, and the insurance lawyers could very well find their way into this one too.
 

XRpredator

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BSWIFT said:
That's a pretty broad claim. Land owners are not liable for trespassers. That's why they(we) put gates and cables up to prevent unauthorized access. Sad case.
depends on the state, Swift. You'd be amazed at how screwed up the trespass laws are around the country.
 

keefbikes

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Apr 16, 2007
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I have not read the size of this cable. I come from an area that there is alot of gravel pits. Guess what they use to block off their dirt roads? Cabels. Now these are one inch thick, but I have never seen anything on them to promote visibility. Now if this was a 1/4 inch line and it was strung up accross a known riding or walking trail than I can blame the stringer, but from all the info given this was a known truck road that had a line strung accross for security purpose, ( NOT CRIMINAL INTENTIONS), and the young man was in a rush to get home. It sounds to me like a terrible accident, not a grumpy old man out teach those young punks a lesson for riding on his land. Very sad stor, but in my area people are riding into open mine shafts almost every week, should we track down the owner of all the old mines and throw him in jail?
 

bsmith

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Land owners are not liable for trespassers

Bswift, welcome to Washington where it is not encouraged to own land. Even if I fence, post, and patrol my property I'm pretty much liable for anything that happens to someone who sneaks on my property and gets hurt.

It's actually sad, for I'm afraind of loosing my farm in a lawsuit, so not even my kids friends are allowed to jump on the trampoline, play on the bluffs, ride their horse, or ATV's.
People are petty or after a quick buck and I've been turned into the EPA and DoL al ready so it saddens me that I don't trust anyone.

If I was in Idaho I'd have a completely different opinion, like "break a leg" kids ;)
 

BadgerMan

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bsmith said:
Bswift, welcome to Washington where it is not encouraged to own land.

Unfortunately, you are not alone there in Warshington.
 

scooter1130

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There have been cases here in NJ where a crimal breaks into a house and gets hurt, then sues the homeowner. And yes I said cases, not just once. :|
 

Solid State

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BSWIFT said:
That's a pretty broad claim. Land owners are not liable for trespassers. That's why they(we) put gates and cables up to prevent unauthorized access. Sad case.

My neighbor came over one day. She tripped in the grass in my yard and sprained her ankle. She had it X-rayed at the ER. When asked where it occurred, she said in her neighbors yard. When her medical insurance company received the bill, they refused to pay and call me directly and said they would sue me (including court costs) and wanted the name of my homeowners insurance company.

My homeowners insurance company paid the bill outright because it happened on my land. I asked if this was normal and they explained that unless there was some finite way of proving she was not allowed on the property, specifically like a sign, then we were liable for the injury.

I am assuming that, especially with a death involved, the land owner will have some degree of liability. I think the cable poses more of a threat than Kentucky bluegrass. My bet is this guy's going to court.
 

BSWIFT

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Simple solution, buy a backhoe!
 
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