Using the clutch when shifting?

Thor

Member
Sep 7, 1999
2
0
I usually don't use my clutch when shifing over a double or even down a straight, I mostly use it to fan out of the curves or keep my power up when going through a series of doubles. I had a guy this weekend tell me that this will eventually fry my gear box. I change oil( mobil 15w50) VERY often. Anyone have any opinions on this? Brian
 

cycleboy

Member
Sep 8, 1999
103
0
As long as you are letting off the throttle when shifting there shouldn't be a problem. Are you finding lots of metal bits in your oil when you change it? This would be a good indicator of whether your shifting technique is causing excessive wear.
 

singletracker500

LIFETIME SPONSOR
Jul 24, 1999
484
0
Got to agree with cycleboy. I never use my clutch to shift. I've never had a problem. I have a magnetic drain plug, it does get a little metal on it. But I don't think it's enough to worry about.

------------------
John
91CR500
It doesn't hurt till the bone shows!
singletracker500@eatmydirt.com
 

Thor

Member
Sep 7, 1999
2
0
Yeah I let off the throttle when I shift. I haven't noticed any debris in my oil. When you say "abuse" do you mean holding the juice to it and cramming the gears? I usually only use the clutch to like downshift going into a curve and feather it coming out. Sort of what bill is talking about. I sometimes downshift when I'm going over a jump and coming up on a really close curve on my landing "without" using the clutch. I do it while I'm in the air and grab the clutch just before landing. Oh well, thanks for the info guys, it just kinda worried me cause the guy who was telling me this is supposed to really know his stuff. Thanks!! Brian
 

peekay

Member
Aug 11, 1999
1
0
hey, i'm still new to this motocross thing, so excuse my ignorance. but when everyone talks about feathering their clutch in the corners are you talking about pulling in the clutch slightly? i went riding at the local track this weekend and tried this and it seemed to work. i want to get better and faster. HELP!!
 

Reeko

Member
Aug 9, 1999
67
0
Feathering the clutch means that you slip the clutch just enough to keep your RPMs in the peak of the power band. Thie is useful so that you don't need to downshift in a turn to keep the power up.
I can take a turn fairly slowly in 3rd gear and then feather the clutch to keep the power up on the exit. Try it, you will find that you can even pull a wheelie in 3rd with very little speed. There are times you might want to downshift, but in a lot of cases if you go down to 2nd you will have to upshift to 3rd as soon as you exit the turn.

However, my friends tell me that I have gone to the extreme on this, and that I slip the clutch more than I really need to on a 250. Using it in turns is one thing, using it all over the track is another. (Plus it really tires the left hand out.) So, now I am trying to use the clutch as little as possible except in turns where sliping the clutch is necessary.

I think that I got into the habit of sliping the clutch so much on my practice track. At home, all of my doubles are right out of tight turns, I need to use the clutch a lot to get the drive to clear the jumps. When I get on a wide open MX course I need to learn to use the right gear when possible.



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Reeko
99KX250
98XR400
 

Ivan Liechty

Member
Aug 18, 1999
138
0
Gary Semics, who trained Jeremy McGrath, said in his book (Motocross and Off-Road Riding Technique) that you do not need to use the clutch when downshifting because there is no load.

According to Semics, use the clutch when upshifting, especially when on the throttle.

Most of the time us normal riders are not going to abuse the gears or clutches enough to worry whether or not we use the clutch all the time for upshifting.

I use my clutch to upshift maybe 1/2 the time.

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Ivan Liechty
'93 WR250
 

KDXkid

Member
Nov 10, 1999
7
0
wow,  I didnt know so many people dont use their clutch all the time.   I always use mine,  up shifting and down.  I dont see any advantages of not using the clutch,  unless its just cause your lazy.  
 

alee

Member
Oct 11, 1999
5
0
I use my clutch all the time as well. I tried not using it when I went out today to try it out but I can shift it up or down at the same speed using the clutch. PLus it felt odd not using it.



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Arthur Lee
99 KX 125
 

cycleboy

Member
Sep 8, 1999
103
0
All the rookie riders overuse the clutch.
cowfrown.gif
The disadvantages are increased wear and increased clutch heating which can lead to slippage. Am I lazy? Yes I am lazy but it has nothing to do with using the clutch.
cowsmile.gif
<p align=right>11-19-1999 :Edited
 

crosser

Member
Aug 17, 1999
1
0
Overusing clutch makes you go slower. I know this from my experiences.
When I first started riding my KX80 i used clutch all the time, even downshifting and braking. Now when i am on the track i only use clutch
when upshifting on the gas and helping motor build up revs. when entering
a turn i just let off the gas, shift a gear down and brake. when i feel
that i can start accelerating i just pinn it and use the clutch with one
finger to build up the revs. I learned this from the PRO MOTOCROSS AND OFF-ROAD MOTOCYCLE RIDING TECHNIQUES (Eric Gorr's book)&nbsp;&nbsp;
 

cycleboy

Member
Sep 8, 1999
103
0
Seven years huh. I guess you know just about everything there is to know about dirt ridin'. I've been at this twenty five years and I'm still learning. What's your secret?
cowsmile.gif
 

TNTRASH

Member
Sep 22, 1999
4
0
There are lots of uses for the clutch but using it to shift during a race is not one of them.&nbsp;&nbsp;It will not hurt the trany to shift without it.&nbsp;&nbsp;Don't worry about down shifting with it either.&nbsp;&nbsp;Over using the clutch will slow you down.&nbsp;&nbsp;The clutch should be used for starting and stopping and feathering when needed.&nbsp;&nbsp;
 

YZ250man

Member
Member
Jun 9, 2002
54
0
This is confusing.

I don't upshift w/o clutch under power, only with throttle off, but almost always use it when downshifting.&nbsp;&nbsp;Isn't downshifting w/o clutch considered 'shifting under load?"

The only times I really use the clutch is to take off, feather for power, and downshifts.&nbsp;&nbsp;Is it OK to downshift w/o clutch (of course, not under power)?

Clarification, please.&nbsp;&nbsp;I'd rather buy clutches than transmissions, so I'd really like to know when it is most necessary to use the clutch to avoid abusing the transmission.

If *no* clutch use on a downshift is not abuse, then gee, that alone can make me faster.
smile.gif


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Dave
89 YZ250WR

&lt;p align=right&gt;12-15-1999 :Edited<p align=right>12-18-1999 :Edited
 

TNTRASH

Member
Sep 22, 1999
4
0
Acutally upshifting under power is harder on the trany than downshifting.
I have a 76 CR250 that has been riden very hard over the last many years that has never had a trany overhaul.&nbsp;&nbsp;On those machines the clutch was much harder to use.&nbsp;&nbsp;I think a clutch is to be used for starting stopping, and feathering in turns.&nbsp;&nbsp;Trust me.
 

xr250r1922

Member
Aug 24, 2004
56
0
hmmmmmm

i have been ridnig only for about 6 years, and i havnt much experience. i always thought you need to use the clutch to shift. i practice wheelies, but when i top out in 2nd gear, i cant pull in the clutch and shift up while im up in the air. does shifting up gears without the clutch cause any damage?( i have read that it doesnt do anything to the tranny) but i want to know for sure.
 

SpeedyManiac

Member
Aug 8, 2000
2,378
0
If you want to upshift without the clutch, don't have the throttle open. I do what's called a powershift, in which I keep the throttle pinned, but pull in the clutch just enough to take enough of the load off the tranny that it'll shift. I don't reccommend doing this when just trail riding, but for racing it speeds things up a lot. I usually use the clutch for shifting when play riding because I figure I might as well make it easier on the tranny when I'm not in a hurry. In racing I use the clutch for downshifting sometimes, but when all I'm worried about is speed, I just hit the shifter.
 

High Lord Gomer

Poked with Sticks
Sep 26, 1999
11,790
34
I agree completely with Speedy. As far as when doing wheelies...you're probably not on the gas hard enough to put much of a load on the tranny, so shifting without the clutch should be fine.
 

Shig

~SPONSOR~
Jan 15, 2004
329
0
I too use Speedy's power shifting technique and I've never had a tranny problem. I always have one finger on the clutch and only pull it in about 1/3 of the way when upshifting. When downshifting, I always use the clutch. Not because it's easier on the tranny, but because it's a smoother way to decelerate, maintain traction and keep from stalling when you are braking while downshifting. Say for instance you are hauling butt into a fast sweeper and you don't use the clutch to downshift before the apex. The abrupt jolt to the back wheel could make the bike want to stand up or lose traction.
 

High Lord Gomer

Poked with Sticks
Sep 26, 1999
11,790
34
I, too, hold the clutch in when braking for the same reason Shig does...also because I'm scared of killing the motor if I lock the rear wheel. I use two fingers though because I'm less of a man (or maybe because I don't work out my hands as much as him!).

I failed to pull the clutch a few weeks ago braking hard while entering a turn on the road in the mountains. When I downshifted the back locked and stepped out. Luckily I'm used to making such mistakes and was able to laugh about it.

A few years ago when I switched to the dark side I sent a question to Mike Young asking him is he ever used the compression braking of the 4 stroke to help stopping. Much like Shig, he said no, it was not as consistent or easy to control.
 

ReDLiNeSHiFT4

Member
Jun 11, 2004
2
0
Thor said:
Yeah I let off the throttle when I shift. I haven't noticed any debris in my oil. When you say "abuse" do you mean holding the juice to it and cramming the gears? I usually only use the clutch to like downshift going into a curve and feather it coming out. Sort of what bill is talking about. I sometimes downshift when I'm going over a jump and coming up on a really close curve on my landing "without" using the clutch. I do it while I'm in the air and grab the clutch just before landing. Oh well, thanks for the info guys, it just kinda worried me cause the guy who was telling me this is supposed to really know his stuff. Thanks!! Brian

I'm assuming your talking about a 2-stroke. I race with 2-strokes and you can actually shift going almost flat out (about 85% throttle) without having to many problems...It's when you start down-shifting very quickly without giving the transmission enough time to switch gears (like going from 5th to 2nd or 3rd immediatelt without slowing down at all) that you start having problems and grinding gears. Now like the other guys said, shifting w/o any throttle would be best, but only when ur not racing or you are just riding around. When ever you change ur oil, check it for any foreign particles (oil, dirt, etc.) because your oil will show any surprises you may be getting.
 

d36RM racer

Member
May 26, 2004
123
0
My main use for the clutch is using it in turns and to start and stop very rarely do i use it to shift i let off just barely and usually just tap the shifter down a gear comming into turns. the gearbox in a motocross is bullet proof dont use the cluch unless u want to get passed
 
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