Winter tire mods.

[Lutz]

I plan on using my bike as much as possible over the course of the winter. What I would like to know is, if any of you run your bikes in the fluffy white stuff, what do you do to your tires?
Obviously, I plan to stud them, but I'm not sure what type of studs to use. What kind of stud do ice racers use?
I have one a friend who used carriage bolts stuck through the inside of the tire, nutted, and sharpened to a point. Another friend uses screw in (sheet metal screw style) studs in his four-wheeler, but I think that this type of stud would have to be very short so as not to puncture the tube, and would probably tear out easily. I have been toying with the idea of buying push through snowmobile studs, but they are pretty darn expensive, and if there is a cheaper way that works, I'd like to try it. Comments? Suggestions? Thanks a lot!

 

[dirt bike dave]

Jeff Fredette has numerous ice racing championships and I think he sells the studs you want. I'd give him a call. 708-946-0999

 

[auger in]

For what its worth: I ride here in Wyoming year 'round using sheet metal screws in the winter. One thing I have learned is that you have to have a good tire to start with to hold the screws. I use new Dunlop 739's with 5/8"x10 screws for the rear & 1/2"x8 screws for the front. They stay in until they wear out, which is usually around 3-4 rides depending on how much dirt & rock you ride in. The front screws last all winter. You need to start with a new tire to get as long a screw as possible & a good compound tire to hold the screws. It is a "hoot" riding with "screwed up" tires. Watch out on pavement or concrete!!! Very hazardous even for short distances.

 

[Lutz]

Thanks for the info guys.
auger in, I know what you mean about the studs making pavement hazardous...I've ridden my friend's 250R with the studs in on pavement...out-of-control! (But kinda fun too ;) ) In a similar no-traction story, I actually took my bike out for a ride last winter. It worked OK in the deep snow, but boy-oh-boy was it interesting taking it down the ice covered dirt road. Needless to say, I didn't ride on the road long!

 

[pyromaniac]

http://members.tripod.com/~chartiz/pyrojox/icetire.jpg

Check out that link. Its a tire i made for iceriding and the method works GREAT!
And its very inexpensive. I think i paid $20 total. Then i had the tires ofcourse.

Heres how it stuff goes. First you find out a pattern you think will work, this is just a feeling cant say how it should be. Its depending on how your studs pattern are. When you think you found a good pattern with enought screws and not too many. Drill holes. Take a M8(means 8mm in diameter for you USdummies:)) with the lenght you think you want, depending on how good knobbies you have and how thick your tire is. Take a big tray in the inside and one on the outside finaly a nut. Screw it hard and see if it looks good. My screws are about 1cm longer than the knobbies. If you found the right lengt make(sharpen) all the screws you need and put them in. To protect your tube you take another old tire and cut away the knobbies and the sides of the tire so its just as wide as it has to be to cover all the screw heads. Then you probably will have to shorten it so it fits inside your tire.

Well thats about it. The only hard thing is to have right amount of screws in a good pattern, all depending how good grip you want. I made a tire with 144 screws and it was way so good grip i should hardly spin, way more traction than on aspfalt. That was too much traction for what i wanted and it tend to act a little like a gyro. I had another tire with 111 screws(i think its on the picture) and it was little to little grip. I was only riding on pure ice and the studs have no sign of wear so i guiss it will last atleast 5 more winters. The best tire to far is one with 144 screws but M6 and i cracked a screw so i decided to move to M8. To this winter i will make a tire with 122 M8 screws and i think it will be awesome.

I'll put a picture up soon on my front tire, its very simple design. Just a normal "wooden screw" in each knobbie. It works very good and do last long, i have once winter on it and it have a little wear on the center screws since i road in on the road(bad idea) but ride on on snow/ice and it will last many hours aswell, maybe not as long as the rear.

It will be found here: http://members.tripod.com/~chartiz/pyrojox/fronttire.jpg

I believe this is the best method to make a set of icetires if you dont mind spending a few hours making and developing your tires. For sure the cheapest way.

 

[Darryl K]

I am currently running a Dunlop K695 on the rear and it is fairly worn so I decided to try studding it before I scrapped it for a new one. I used #12 X 1/2 inch sheet metal screws and drilled them into the outer- middle two rows of knobs (I didn't stud the most outer row or the center row). I purchased a box of 110 screws at Ace Hardware for $3.99 and used about 100 of them. I went riding this afternoon for the first time with it and it was nothing short of awesome! I was riding everything from hardpack, loam, mud and shale and the traction was unbelievable. I left the center row unstudded for road sections of which I road several miles of asphalt and about 5 miles of gravel with little problem. I was able to "idle" up hills that in the past required a lot of momentum because of lack of traction. Cornering was like I was on rails and lifting the front wheel to clear obstacles was effortless......I will probably use this set up year around after giving it a try, it was that good!! I was somewhat worried about flats because the screws were about as long as the remaining knobs but jumped high enough to bottom both ends repeatedly and never had a problem (yet) and upon returning home I noticed I only lost 5 or 6 screws.....not too bad in my opinion. Give it a try, I can't imagine anyone coming away without a sh*T eating grin on their face!
Darryl

 

[2big4akdx]

I used #8 sheet metal screws last winter,1/2 long. I trail rode alot and never had a problem with flats or lost screws. Of course if you want to get into some heavy ice racing or such this set up is not the best.But for trail riding , even hard trail riding , this worked for me. Had a blast!

 

[DVO]

This may sound ridicuous, but has anyone ever considered chains? As long as they're properly fitted it should be possible and easy on/off. Be a bit of trial and error for the fit though but you wouldn't even have to scrap a tire or change them for that matter. Any opinions? DVO

 

[Lutz]

I didn't even remember this until you brought it up, but...
I do remember my brother telling about what one of his friends did once with a KX80. He wrapped individual pieces of chain around the tire, ran bolts between the spokes, and bolted the ends of each piece of chain together. I guess it worked pretty well. My only concern doing it that way would be the possibility of damaging the spokes, but if it is done right, the chains shouldn't move, so that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe I'll try that this winter.

 

[CRguyStan]

Summer Flats

I was gonna try that last winter but thought that I might get a flat from riding the same trails in the summer and end up hitting lost screws in the trail.
Does anyone ever fear this or do you think they ussually go flying off into the woods.
Stan

 

[DVO]

Lutz: MY first thought was of something like what you suggest but I tink it would marr the aluminum rims too much for my liking. I was considering installing chains in the same way as for a truck. I figured on having one length on each side measured to fit so that they hug closely the side of the knobbies on the outside edge. From these at 4-6in intervals (or whatever, I haven't gotten that far yet) there'd be a chain going across the tire to the other side. I checked out my reartire 120/100-18 and there's plenty of room for the chains on the side and at the "mud flap". The important thing is to measure and install with the tire a bit deflated so that you can inflate to the pressure you want and the chains would be tight. That's what I do for the father in laws' ****s and they don't rattle or loosen at all. Also carbide or some sort of snowmobile track studs welded on the chains would be very handy 'cause chains slip nicely on ice. If you weld on studs the chain has to be very tight so it doesn't roll on itself. I think I'll ask for a mig-welder for christmas. Or a job down south. Still tinking about it. DVO

 

[dslpwr]

carrige /stove>(slotted head) that have a round head will work.on 220 with the 695 dunlop i use 5/16 by 1 1/4 with washers big enough to go over square part of carrige bolt on inside,to help from pulling thru, one small washer that just fits on the knob of tire without "hanging" over it (knob) on the outside.locktite 1 nut on the bolt and cut it off 1/4 in above the nut .works like nothing you have ever tried on the rear.front 490 dunlop 1/4 by 1 1/4 on each knob,washer and double nut on ouside with all the bolt left on it full length.its helps if the tire has a "block" type tread pattern like the 2 i use.its takes many hours to do them right but its well worth it rear= 105 bolts front=160.you'll look like a hero.good luck

 

[dslpwr]

carrige /stove>(slotted head) that have a round head will work.on 220 with the 695 dunlop i use 5/16 by 1 1/4 with washers big enough to go over square part of carrige bolt on inside,to help from pulling thru, one small washer that just fits on the knob of tire without "hanging" over it (knob) on the outside.locktite 1 nut on the bolt and cut it off 1/4 in above the nut .works like nothing you have ever tried on the rear.front 490 dunlop 1/4 by 1 1/4 on each knob,washer and double nut on ouside with all the bolt left on it full length.its helps if the tire has a "block" type tread pattern like the 2 i use.its takes many hours to do them right but its well worth it rear= 105 bolts front=160.you'll look like a hero.good luck you will need some type of liner between bolts and tube .i used a "rig" truck liner cut to width in front and rear or use foam inserts.with tubes i run 20 psi to keep every thing (in place) and less likly to spin tire on rim.

 

[Masu]

Hey Pyromanic!

Your idea about the studing tires sounds great, I'd love to see the pics, but when I follow the link it says the pics are locked down :(

Cheers!

 

[Asrith]

All I can say

My friend in Grawn, MI., he rides his cirlcle and likes the compact snowmobile trails, he swears hex studs are working great for him so far. He is running stock tires and has not lost one yet. He says that he gets gripption that is unreal. Simply screw them in your tires. That is all I can say.

 

[WoodsRider]

Ice screws are your best bet if the area where you ride isn't too rocky. A lot of Northeast riders, where we have our share of rocks, use studded tires. Trelleborg's (now made by Mitas) seem to be the brand of choice ($300 for a set) but there are alternative brands.

If you plan on using screws get the 1" long Kold Kutters. Get a used street bike tire, 18" or 19" for the rear and 21" (Harley front tire) for the front. Cut the bead off using a heavy duty carpet knife and stuff the tread into the knobby tire. The screws will go through the knobby and anchor into the liner which helps hold the screw and prevents it from puncturing the tube.

Either that or you can do what I did and buy a set of ice tires from Fredette. :confused:

 

[DVO]

Well I'm not quite ready to kick int 300US for a pair so I put 3/4in. sheet metal screws. They work half decently but I've lost a few in the rear. I have a dunlp 695(I think) and maybe it's a little too soft. I picked up 3 of them for $120CDN so I can dedicate one for winter use. I'll put carriage bolts through like DSLPWR described, rubber silicone the heads, line it with a spare tube and use it like that but I gotta wait 'till I get the tools to change tires myself. In the mean-time, I'm becoming a much better rider, or at least in slippery conditions. The concentration required to stay up is incredible. I'm afraid to let go of the bars but my sense of balance and reflexes are getting highly tuned...