A judge who's hand I want to shake!

[HajiWasAPunk]

Giving a more wealthy person a larger fine is extremely unfair. If Bob down the road earns 20k a year, then he earns 20k a year. If John earns 100k a year, then he earns 100k a year. Each person has worked to get to that salary, and cleeary (in most instances) John has worked harder than BobIn order to earn more money. John should not have to pay more money for a fine than Bob, as this demotes Bob as a person, giving him less human value than John.

Yes, but by fining an amount that won't cripple Bob, you've made it so John can pay the fine without a punishiment that will effect him. I don't know what you earn or if you have a desire to speed. But if I told you if you speed, it'll cost you $2 how much would you slow down? That's about what it's like for many people. There's an incentive alignment problem, and at higher incomes using fines is not aligning them.

This is not the same as the arguement about taxes. Taxes, lol, are not a punishment (insert your IRS joke here) but a necessity. We're not trying to discourage a particular behavior based on them.

Friar, don't let 'em sway you!

 

[robwbright]

I haven't been on much recently, and I haven't gotten around to reading all the posts for the last week in this thread.

As to the last post, there is such a thing as equal protection under the law. A strict interpretation of such would require equal punishment for two people committing the same crime - regardless of how much money either of them makes.

As you would imagine, I think speed laws should be like Montana and Germany - and people punished (monetarily or with jail time) for actually CAUSING property or personal damage.

Regardless, I think you guys will find this interesting - the wife of Paris Hilton's prosecutor has a driving record SIMILAR to Paris' and she's apparently not doing jail time. Hmm . . .

http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson191.html

"City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo got Paris Hilton jailed for violating probation for driving with a suspended license, then condemned her early release. Now, he says he's embarrassed about the outstanding bench warrant for his wife, Michelle, the Los Angeles Times reported Wednesday.

Rocky Delgadillo said he didn't know about it until this week and has urged his wife to remedy the situation.

"My wife is embarrassed about this, and I am embarrassed as well," he said.

The couple also has been chronically late in paying fines for at least five parking tickets in the last three years, the newspaper reported. One violation for parking in a red zone in December 2006 was not paid until the newspaper inquired about the tickets last month, by which time the $70 infraction had become a $174 fine with penalties.

However, as they say on late-night TV, "Wait, there’s more!"

On Monday, Delgadillo apologized for keeping quiet about a 2004 accident in which his wife crashed his city-issued vehicle while driving on a suspended license. Delgadillo said he was reimbursing the city for the $1,222 repair.

The prosecutor has said Michelle Delgadillo's offenses are not comparable to those of Hilton, who is serving a 45-day sentence for violating her probation in an alcohol-related reckless driving case.

In the latest disclosure, Michelle Delgadillo said she was "very embarrassed" and was working to resolve the arrest warrant issue as soon as possible.

"I will do whatever the court instructs me to do. I apologize for any embarrassment this has caused my husband and family," she said in a statement to the newspaper.

One can be sure that Ms. Delgadillo is not going to have to worry about spending several weeks in a cell or having to be humiliated in front of a judge. After all, she is not Paris Hilton, and in this land of Two Americas, anyone who might have been born with a silver or even gold spoon by definition is an Enemy of the People. Thus, even though it is clear that Hilton’s blue Bentley was targeted by police and that she was treated much more harshly than is the situation with most people, anything less than having her hanged, drawn, and quartered for driving without a driver’s license is not good enough."

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

Nice Rob,that is rich!I still do not get it though,me in that circumstance:I would hire a couple of lesbians to drive me around so I could make a COMPLETE ass of myself and be done!If that judge had any real kahonas he would slap his old lady in the can,right next to paris,and I would recommend a web cam!

 

[Filthy_McNasty]

Taxes, lol, are not a punishment (insert your IRS joke here) but a necessity. We're not trying to discourage a particular behavior based on them.

Of course the government tries to encourage/discourage behaviors through taxation. If you act this way, you get a deduction. But if you act that way, you don't. Want to reduce smoking? Add a tobbacco tax. Want to encourage homeownership instead of renting? Deductions! Every single tax and dedution is designed to encourage or discourage some sort of action or behavior.

But this is straying from the point. Unequal punishments based on income are unfair, period. Where do you draw the line? Which punishments for which crimes should be equal, and which ones should be based on a person's income? And what about basing the punishments on status instead? And who will decide all of these inequities?

I will always be consistant. Any punishment for any crime should always be applied equaly to all offenders, regardless of race, religion, income, blahblahblah...That's at the very foundation of what this country was created on. Equal treatment for all under the law. To suggest anything else is Un-American.

 

[motometal]

is the government REALLY trying to reduce smoking? If there was no more smoking, where would the tax $$$ come from to replace current tobacco tax $$$?

 

[Okiewan]

is the government REALLY trying to reduce smoking? If there was no more smoking, where would the tax $$$ come from to replace current tobacco tax $$$?

Exactly ... there is no tax law passed to NOT increase income.

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Regardless, I think you guys will find this interesting -

"99% of lawyers give the rest a bad name."

 

[02yz426f]

The opposite of the 1% rule know by many ama members

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

Of course the government tries to encourage/discourage behaviors through taxation. If you act this way, you get a deduction. But if you act that way, you don't. Want to reduce smoking? Add a tobbacco tax. Want to encourage homeownership instead of renting? Deductions! Every single tax and dedution is designed to encourage or discourage some sort of action or behavior.

But this is straying from the point. Unequal punishments based on income are unfair, period. Where do you draw the line? Which punishments for which crimes should be equal, and which ones should be based on a person's income? And what about basing the punishments on status instead? And who will decide all of these inequities?

I will always be consistant. Any punishment for any crime should always be applied equaly to all offenders, regardless of race, religion, income, blahblahblah...That's at the very foundation of what this country was created on. Equal treatment for all under the law. To suggest anything else is Un-American.

If you put a millionare and a welfare recipient in jail for 45 days, they've received equal punishment. If you fine them both $200 they haven't. I'm for equal punishment and this isn't equal. Taxes are paid as a percent of income, why can't punishments be done that way? By making it a fixed amount for both, you've made it affordable to break the law for some.

 

[Matt 193]

Rob says he doesn't want laws to punish you unless you cause damage. So are you saying you wouldn't mind someone driving 75mph while drinking down your road? What if this person hit your kid, niece, nephew, wife borther etc? Would you still think its right that he was driving drunk or would you want a law saying he wasn't allowed to be drinking and driving and then maybe he wouldn't have killed someone you love?

(I am not wishing this to happen to you or anything like that it's just my opinion.)

 

[Filthy_McNasty]

If you put a millionare and a welfare recipient in jail for 45 days, they've received equal punishment. If you fine them both $200 they haven't. I'm for equal punishment and this isn't equal. Taxes are paid as a percent of income, why can't punishments be done that way? By making it a fixed amount for both, you've made it affordable to break the law for some.

So you are an advocate of "unequal treatment under the law", then...

Maybe the welfare recipient should get off his ass and develop some marketable job skills so $200 won't break his pocketbook...just a thought.

 

[pryor]

Maybe the welfare recipient should get off his ass and develop some marketable job skills so $200 won't break his pocketbook...just a thought.[/QUOTE] :cool:

 

[HajiWasAPunk]

So you are an advocate of "unequal treatment under the law", then...

It's unequal today, at least the impact it has. You make it affordable for some to break the law and not others.

Maybe the welfare recipient should get off his ass and develop some marketable job skills so $200 won't break his pocketbook...just a thought.

When it comes to taxes or really anything other than punishment I agree with you. There's no reason to stick it to someone because they've worked hard and made it. It's only when it comes to criminal punishment that I find myself taking this more "liberal" stance.

If it makes the analogy any easier, compare the millionare to someone who's gone to college and makes say $60k a year with a family. That speeding ticket won't bankrupt him, but you have to admit it stings a lot more for him than it does for a rich guy. I don't think breaking laws should be something you find someone saying "I can afford to do".

 

[kawicam250]

saw a glimpse of the news this morning, Paris Hilton is out again!

 

[Matt 193]

saw a glimpse of the news this morning, Paris Hilton is out again!

What for this time was she "sick" again?

 

[whenfoxforks-ruled]

All in all it would seem to have worked out perfect!Billed as the biggest media event ever, bigger than oj and mikey jackson!ABSOLUTELY PERFECT!!! Nice company also!

 

[XRpredator]

saw a glimpse of the news this morning, Paris Hilton is out again!

I believe this is when she was supposed to get out of jail

 

[FruDaddy]

I believe this is when she was supposed to get out of jail

I thought that it was supposed to be 45 days, and I heard somewhere that the stayed 23.

Anyway, why does everybody really care whether or not she's in jail (unless you live in the Beverly Hills area where your life may be in danger when she tries to drive)? She'll be back to her old self by next week, because she doesn't know any better.

 

[Ol'89r]

I thought that it was supposed to be 45 days, and I heard somewhere that the stayed 23.

Anyway, why does everybody really care whether or not she's in jail (unless you live in the Beverly Hills area where your life may be in danger when she tries to drive)? She'll be back to her old self by next week, because she doesn't know any better.

She served 21 days I believe. That was the term with good behavior. And FruDaddy, some of us do drive on the same streets as her.

She said the jail time taught her a lesson. She said she is changing her lifestyle and going to find new friends to hang out with. Weither or not this happens will remain to be seen but, it sounds like her time in the slammer got her attention.

At least she knows now that she is not above the law.

 

[dirt bike dave]

She served 21 days I believe.

Some of the confusion has to do with the way the days are counted.

Apparently, in LA, if you check in at 11:59 pm, you get credit for a full day. And if you check out at 12:01 am, you get credit for another full day.

So if you stay 21 days and 2 minutes, you get credit for 23 days served.

I think the jailers allow this due to the overcrowding situation.

I guess if you get sentenced to 2 days of time, to pay your debt to society, all you have to do is drive down to jail, check in and then check out. If you are a celebrity, then you can collect your $1 Million interview fee from your favorite 'news' outlet, so everyone is happy.

 

[FruDaddy]

She served 21 days I believe. That was the term with good behavior. And FruDaddy, some of us do drive on the same streets as her.

She said the jail time taught her a lesson. She said she is changing her lifestyle and going to find new friends to hang out with. Weither or not this happens will remain to be seen but, it sounds like her time in the slammer got her attention.

At least she knows now that she is not above the law.

I get most of my celeb info from the TVGuide channel while I'm finding out what's on, a little of it catches my ear. I am sorry to hear that you share the same road as her, because I don't believe for a minute that she has changed. I expect that she has said exactly what her publicist said that she should say.

My comment about sharing the same roads meant that the only people that should worry about her driving are the ones driving in the area where she is. I was not indicating that nobody should worry about it. I'm guessing that most of her drinking is done at night, so try to get yourself and your family home before dark (and don't head out too early in the morning).

Another wild guess, "new friends" is just code for better lawyers. :laugh: What can I say, I see the worst in celebrities. And I still don't believe that she's really worth the attention that she gets.

 

[Dracus124]

she is doing an interview at this very moment....

 

[Ol'89r]

What can I say, I see the worst in celebrities. And I still don't believe that she's really worth the attention that she gets.

Well, there's something we both agree on. :nod:

Having once worked in the film industry, I have never run into a more self-centered, screwed up bunch of people in my life.