Boycott FMF

[Lutz]

I say boycott fmf. And I don't mean just gripe on the internet about shoddy fit and missing parts. I mean don't buy anything from them.

Their service to their customers is not near what it should be...OK maybe they will try to remedy the problem after you realize something is wrong and call them on it...but initially, the products they supply are poorly constructed (they generally don't fit right) and the products often are missing important components.

Taking into account the shoddy construction, the prices charged by most distributers for fmf products are still as much as or higher than the prices for comparable products from, say, Pro Circuit. But at those prices, Pro Circuit and other companies provide products that fit well, and include the necessary components. And even after you buy something from fmf, you still might have to spend more money to get all the components necessary to use it.

One thing fmf does have going for them is that their products work well, after the struggle of getting them on. In my opinion, however, it is not worth the money and effort that is required to have fmf products. I'll continue to buy my performance products from other companies, and I think it is in everyone's best interest if everyone else does too; that is until fmf fixes their problems and gives their customers what they pay for.

Remember, as long as people keep buying an inferior product, companies will have no interest in making the product better. Improvements=higher cost to the company=lower profits to the company=something a company won't do unless they are forced.

I don't really intend this response to be offensive to anyone, but I would like to see fmf give its customers the service that they deserve. It is obvious as one reads through the threads in this forum that fmf gets the lion's share of support from the people here, and I suspect many other KDX riders, as well as people riding other types of bikes. FMF IS ABUSING ITS CUSTOMERS by not providing the highest quality product, when the highest quality is expected and payed for. We need to send fmf the message that they need to step up to the plate, and fix the problems that they pass on to their customers; or else they won't have any more customers.

Sincerely, Lutz

 

[BigBore]

Hah....

Thats the story of most of the aftermarket parts industry.

 

[CanadianRidr]

When I told the people there that there pipe was rusting and it dented by dropping a socket wrech on the top of it,

Here was our conversation.


a:Hi my pipe is rusting
f: dude it must have been like a abused old pipe,
a:nope it is a new pipe for an 01 CR
f:you should have cleaned it after all your rides
a:I did, I used wd-40 just like you people told me
f:hmm then you must have not done it right
a:How can I not clean a pipe with wd-40 right?
f:Umm I dunno man, maybe you didn't use enough, or you did't get it everwhere
a:nope I sprayed the whole pipe top to bottom and rubbed it in and polished it off
f:maybe you used a rough cloth
a: NO I DIDN'T I CAN SPRAY FRIGGEN WD-40 ON A PIPE

2 days later

f:hmm I talked to my boss and he said you must have spayed it on wrong
a:AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
f:and he said it's impossible to dent the pipe with a socket.
a:I had it on my seat and it fell off and dented it, I am not saying I want it replaced but it is kinda weird that little force would have dented it.
f:I don't think it did
a:Are you saying I am lying?
f:No you might have hit it with it
a:why would I hit my pipe with a socket wrench
f:I dunno people do weird thinks
a:forget it, I will not buy fmf anymore unless I get them for cheap
f:are pipes are 199.00
a:and they are not worth it, like I said you lost my buisness.


And that is my nice e-mail game they have yet to respond to me, but I will let you know when and if they do!

 

[CR Swade]

Originally posted by CanadianRidr


And that is my nice e-mail game they have yet to respond to me, but I will let you know when and if they do!

Ummm, dude I talked to my boss...maybe you didn't hit the reply/send button right:p

 

[spanky250]

boycott FMF? yeah, right...

As long as the moto-rags portray the bolt-on items as a godsend for the bikes of all the pre-pubescent teens that believe every word they read in those moto tabloids, you aren't going to hurt their business at all.

 

[CanadianRidr]

My motto is

Chrome=Fast

lol, it's true:(

 

[JTT]

Re: boycott FMF? yeah, right...

Originally posted by spanky250
As long as the moto-rags portray the bolt-on items as a godsend for the bikes of all the pre-pubescent teens that believe every word they read in those moto tabloids, you aren't going to hurt their business at all.

Brilliantly put!

 

[Lutz]

It all has too start somwhere. And even if fmf wouldn't lose a significant amount of business, they wouldn't have YOUR business. Or to put it another way: you wouldn't have just handed them money for them to rip you off.

It takes a little bit of spreading the word. You tell your friends why you won't buy from fmf, they tell their buddies, and so on. It takes unity. It's like the recent presidential election in a way: there are people that could have voted and made a difference in the outcome, but they thought "What can I do? I'm only one person." That attitude is why a large number of problems in this world go on. The thing is, every person does matter. One plus one is two. Keep going from there and eventually you get to a really large number, that is significant.

What I'm saying is don't just sit back and say why should I bother-I don't matter. Realize that every person does matter, and that if enough people do participate, big changes for the better will happen. That's why the USA exists today: people realized that something bad was going on and they stood together to fix it.

Ever hear this? "If we don't stand together, we'll hang seperately."

Finally, fmf doesn't get all its business from pre-pubescent teens who rely only on magazines to decide what they want to buy for their bikes. And despite that fact, those same pre-pubescent teens will also listen to other people in the sport about what good and bad experiences they have had. And pre-pubescent teens are usually concerned with their own best interest: if they can see that one thing is better than another, they will get the better of the two.

So, like I said before, boycott fmf, and spread the word. If we do it one person at a time, we can make a difference.

Lutz

 

[spanky250]

Originally posted by Lutz
Or to put it another way: you wouldn't have just handed them money for them to rip you off.

The only problem with that is, I don't feel ripped off by FMF. The FMF pipe that I put on my bike was light-years better than the garbage stocker, and it was also better than the PC pipe that I tried. I had no problems with the fit or the quality, either.

 

[DAVE C]

So, do I have an option on a pipe? I want more low end on a 99 KDX 200 I was going to get a FMF Torque pipe but after reading this I may research my options. The PC pipe would be more equivalent to a FMF REV pipe, right? What about the Torque? A DG? Anything else?

 

[JTT]

Lutz, I was not saying you are wrong, just that there are too many products to mention, that do not live up to their claims (or magazine claims). People need to learn to bypass the "hype", that's all.

I have an FMF pipe on my bike, it fit good, but is definitely no better than stock, but my stocker is destroyed, so....

 

[Lutz]

spanky250,

The only problem with that is, I don't feel ripped off by FMF.

I'm glad to hear you don't feel ripped off by fmf. I'm sure lots of people don't; fmf pipes do make good power. But a very large number of people have problems with fit and with components missing. Maybe my point would better be made by saying, "you wouldn't have just handed them money for them to rip you or someone else off.


JTT,
I understand what you are saying, and it is most certainly true. Yes there are a lot of products that are all hype, and people need to avoid those. However exhaust pipes (like those from fmf) are not all hype; they really do work (well in the case of your CR250 the new pipe wasn't better, but that is a bit of an uncommon situation). Unfortunately, fmf has a problem with making pipes that fit like they are supposed to: that is the problem I would like to see resolved. Like you and spanky250 said, some fmf pipes fit good, but many others do not.

Fmf gets a huge share of business in aftermarket exhausts; if they don't make a product as well as they could, other companies aren't as hard pressed to make high quality products. However, if fmf is forced to improve, the companies in competition with fmf will also be forced to improve in order to stay competitive. Again, that would be good for all of us who buy products from the aftermarket. So while it's hard to target every company who makes sub-standard products, it is easy to target the big offenders. In this case fmf.


Dave C,
One thing I have thought about is that, to my knowledge, the only pipe manufacturer to make a torque pipe is fmf, though I could be wrong since I haven't actually looked into it myself. Maybe DG or some other mass production pipe company makes a torque pipe. However, there is the option of getting a custom pipe: you will almost definately spend more than for an fmf pipe, but you are also almost guaranteed a perfect fit, the untimate in build quality, and the option of having a pipe tuned for exactly the way you ride. Also, for low end torque, the stock pipe is usually a pretty good option. In any case, you may have to search a little harder to find an aftermarket torque pipe, but if you don't buy poor fitting fmf pipe, it will be worth it. (Just be careful that you don't buy a poor fitting pipe from another manufacturer.)


One final note: I am not saying boycott only fmf. If there are any other companies that have such a high rate of problems with their products, you shouldn't buy from them either. Fortunately, for every company that has a high rate of problems, there is probably one that has a low rate of problems, i.e. fmf vs. Pro Circuit. Every person has options, so no person should have to buy a pipe that doesn't fit like it is supposed to, and so on.

 

[Farmer John]

As I read this thread I get the feeling that your primary complaint is that the pipe did not fit well, but others do.

Having worked in motorcycle accessory shops for approx 15-20 years I can say with out a doubt, that on an even number of sales basis, FMF has better quality control on fitament than Pro Circut (the worst), DG, Bills, & the rest.
Now if you want to talk finish, I would have to say they need to hire better welders & platers.
I would say 1 out of every 70 FMF pipes I have sold has had a fitament problem. While Pro Circut & Bills would be around 1 out of every 55-60. Some manufactures are even worse. I have yet to sell a Dynoport pipe that fit correctly & didn't either leak or melt something.

As far as their customer service....I refuse to talk to anyone that uses "dude" during a professional discussion. I stop them on the spot & ask them to get someone else.

 

[KawieKX125]

I happen to think think FMF's pipes are light years better than any os PC's stuff.
I told myself after my many bad experiences with PC's fit, finish, and customer service that I would never get another thing from them. Stupid me bought a set of their pegs off of ebay and low and behold, they do not fit!! PC's answer was, I was installing them wrong. So, I sent them some pictures in an email and have gotten no response.
FMF on the other hand makes great pipes IMO. THey fit well and I have found them to be strong.

 

[fmfkx125372]

However, there is the option of getting a custom pipe: you will almost definately spend more than for an fmf pipe, but you are also almost guaranteed a perfect fit, the untimate in build quality, and the option of having a pipe tuned for exactly the way you ride.

I think you answered your own personal quest here. You said it yourself also, everyone has a choice, if you aren't happy with FMF, then you have many other's to chose from. Go Custom, dude...:p sorry, couldn't resist the dude part!!

 

[mx547]

i bought an fmf pipe once. i so disliked the way my bike ran with it that i took it off after one race and put the stocker back on. i put the fmf back on when i sold the bike because everyone else likes them. i'll stick with pc, i know they work the way i like.

the fmf did fit fine though and looked good.

 

[380EXCman]

At least you guy only have to worry about your pipes fitting your bike. I have to worry about my bike fitting a pipe. When I got a Big Gun for my Husaberg it came with a note that said the pipe may not fit properly because of the inconsistency of frame dimensions from Berg to Berg. :)

 

[Dirtbiker1165505]

I'm with you Lutz. I have two rides on my new FMF Gnarly Gold Series pipe, and if I could do it over I wouldn't have bought it. After the first ride, I washed it with soap and water and a soft sponge. Then after it dried I oiled it down generously. Three or four days later and it's rusting. Whats up with that. My son has a 1997 Fatty SST Gold Series on his 125, and we don't even have to oil that thing because it never rusts. It seems to me, their pipes that they are putting out lately are of less quality. I will not buy another one.

 

[marcusgunby]

I like FMF fit and strength and performance but was dissapointed with the last one rusting when it had the nickel finish-isnt that what the finish is for to stop rusting.The older ones didnt do this(90-94) so its not a case of wd40 application problems.

 

[Lutz]

As I read this thread I get the feeling that your primary complaint is that the pipe did not fit well, but others do.

-Farmer John
Your feelings are correct. However, I am not complaining from first hand experience-I have never bought an fmf product for myself. What I have noticed is that as I read through the various forums here, I notice post after post complaining how such-and-such fmf product did not fit right. I have read none about a Pro Circuit product fitting poorly (until now). And I some of my friends who have fmf pipes have problems. So I'm not really complaining for myself, I'm complaining because as I see it fmf is wronging lots of its customers. I know every manufacturer is bound to have problems on occasion, but fmf is a very big company in our sport, and they have a lot of problems. Targeting the problems of smaller companies won't help us much, but targeting the problems of a big one will.

I mean no offence, but what kind of pipe do you have? I'm not saying that you are wrong about fitment problems among brands, but that is definately not what I have heard on the whole. And from what I have found, fitment problems vary between makes and models. For example, the KDX guys have LOTS of trouble with fmf fitment, but the newer CR250 guys don't. And again, until now, I haven't heard any complaints about Pro Circuit fitment. I'm just going on what I have heard from the majority of people.

 

[Farmer John]

Originally posted by Lutz
I mean no offence, but what kind of pipe do you have? I'm not saying that you are wrong about fitment problems among brands, but that is definately not what I have heard on the whole

None taken :)
What kind of pipe do I have?
97 CR250 - Switch between an FMF Fatty (offroad) & a Bills (MX)
01 KX 500 - stock
87 Husky 430 CR - Uptight
94 YZWR 250 - Pro Circut

I am niether defending FMF or trying to knock your findings.
For what its worth, I can prove the numbers stated above with sales tracings & shipping/RA numbers on warranties.

You probably hear a lot of FMF complaints because they out sell all the rest combined.

As far as my personal prefrences, I only change things that I do not like or destroy. The only reason I have an after market pipe on my CR & WR is that I crushed the stockers like frat house beer cans. The Husky has a diffent pipe because the stocker was an engineering joke. When I got purchase a pipe &/or muffler I get as much different information as possible.

On to customer service.
Since I race Best in the Desert & work all the contingencies I often have to call both PC & FMF in the same day. That day usually ends in a headache. Both companies should be embarassed at their "customer service" phone manners.

 

[mxracer724]

Originally posted by Lutz

Their service to their customers is not near what it should be...OK maybe they will try to remedy the problem after you realize something is wrong and call them on it...but initially, the products they supply are poorly constructed (they generally don't fit right) and the products often are missing important components.

I hear ya there man I bought a Fatty for my old 125 like a year ago and it didn't even fit. I had to force it on and I tried taking it of one time and couldn't because it was fit so d*mn tight!!

 

[Whoops]

Lutz

Don't take this the wrong way. I believe you when you say you have a dented and rusty pipe. It's just my two cents.

Have you contacted anyone besides the one person? If you have a real beef with these guys then take it to the appropriate level. Since this person has to talk to his boss, he is the wrong person. Talk to someone in position to make things right. A good guidline is if the person your'e talking to doesn't have the authority to say yes then you are talking to the wrong person.

Before going off on the deep end, talk to someone in charge. Otherwise you could come off as half-****ed(as in the hammer of your pistol is not fully pulled back) and whiney. From my perspective, why would I boycott FMF because you talked to a clerk with an attitude. Now if FMF managment doesn't support their product or customers, that is a different thing. If you can't get satisfaction after talking to a person with the authority to say yes, you have have a real complaint.

Whoops

 

[Lutz]

Farmer John,
Thanks for the info. I kinda thought that fmf pipes outsell all the others. It just goes to show that they have a very large influence on the rest of the market. If we can make a difference with them, we can make a difference in the whole market.

What you said also shows that regardless of the company, performance is good, and fit can be a problem. Since fmf produces the most pipes, they are bound to produce the most fit problems. I still feel that if we boycott fmf due to its problems, we can force them to improve their product quality. And if fmf fixes its problems, the other companies will probably be forced to follow suit, to stay competitive. In the end, it would be good for everyone, even if it means some sort of sacrifice initially.

 

[Lutz]

Whoops,
I never said I have a complaint with a rusty or dented pipe, those are complaints other people have come up with along the way. Also my complaint is not with the service departments that deal with fmf products. In fact none of these complaints are mine, I am just trying to voice the complaints of MANY other people. I have never even dealt with fmf myself; what I am trying to do is start the ball rolling to get fmf (and in the process all the aftermarket manufacturers) to improve the build quality of their exhaust products (so that they fit like they are supposed to). I didn't start this thread as the result of one little incident that wasn't taken to the appropriate level. I agree that the people in charge need to hear these complaints; and the best way to make them hear and listen is to hurt them in the pocket-book. That is what a boycott does.

I have not once meant to come off as half-****ed and whiney because I had one isolated bad experience. Again, I HAVEN'T HAD ANY BAD EXPERIENCE MYSELF; I just noticed that MANY OTHERS HAVE, and I would like the see these problems that occur on a large scale fixed. I see this problem from an unbiased perspective (or as unbiased as a person can be). Like I said before, I don't want this to be just some complaints typed on the internet, I want a real-world change to be made. And I don't want to see a company charging a premium price for a generic quality product, especially the leading seller of that said product.

So as I see it, the only way to get such a large scale problem fixed is to set up a boycott of that product. I want hammer to be all the way back.:debil: