Death of the 125 - what will be the last 125 year?
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nikki
Moto Junkie
- Apr 21, 2000
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- #177
Just a few statistics....
Anaheim 1 SX 125 main - 19 4-strokes & 3 2-strokes (Short RM125 4th, Lytle KTM125 19th, Kiniry RM125 20th)
Phoenix SX 125 main - 20 4-strokes & 2 2-strokes (Short RM125 4th & Kiniry RM125 20th)
So after two rounds, Short is the ONLY rider to get top 18 in a 125 SX main on a 125. LOL!
If the factories aren't even supporting a few riders to still perform on 125's right now.... that's a big sign that they probably aren't gonna support future production given all of the new regulations coming along.
Anaheim 1 SX 125 main - 19 4-strokes & 3 2-strokes (Short RM125 4th, Lytle KTM125 19th, Kiniry RM125 20th)
Phoenix SX 125 main - 20 4-strokes & 2 2-strokes (Short RM125 4th & Kiniry RM125 20th)
So after two rounds, Short is the ONLY rider to get top 18 in a 125 SX main on a 125. LOL!
If the factories aren't even supporting a few riders to still perform on 125's right now.... that's a big sign that they probably aren't gonna support future production given all of the new regulations coming along.
Can Can Kev
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- Feb 24, 2003
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man supercross has gone to crud , i used to crank up the volume on the 125 main events to hear the nice wine of 20+ 125s WOT , now all i hear is a bunch of farting 4 strokes ...... i think im gonna cry lol
i dont care if the 4s are faster or easyer to ride...... nothing beats the smell of race gas and pre mix burning its like a heavenly moto x air freshner.... :P
i dont care if the 4s are faster or easyer to ride...... nothing beats the smell of race gas and pre mix burning its like a heavenly moto x air freshner.... :P
it also depends on the tracks you ride to, half the tracks i ride are basically giant simple supercross tracks with a lot af hairpins and such while the other half is more of a traditional national track with many sweepers and uphills. for the latter half i would say fours have the advantage while the first half the 2's might have an edge.
read something in car and driver that claimed that in 1955 the amount of microns on average of "pollution" was about .389 or therebaouts pbm at 75microns or larger and now in california that number is about .0198 pbm at 10 microns or larger. thats a pretty big fall, global warming has passed not to mention that 2stroke emissions amount for well under 10% of total emissions in this country. the EPA is a bunch of idiots who like to find something pointless to bitch about so they look like they're making a contribution to society. unfortunately, this false contribution will cost us our two-strokes. in the latest mxa they tested a ktm 125 with over 40hp, the 2smokes still have a lot power lurking within them its a shame that it will likely never be revealed because they could shame the 4s.
About the year end deals: for some models (esp. the Honda 125), you will be able to get deals, but I didn't find that to be the case with my 04 YZ. I called several dealers in the NJ/PA area, and I found that most dealers were only getting 1 or 2 YZ125s for the year (at least thats what they told me). Because of the limited number of bikes, and apparently, a fairly decent demand, getting a deal was not that easy.
nikki
Moto Junkie
- Apr 21, 2000
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I've always thought the domination of the 250F seems to be a no brainer vs. the 125 in almost all aspects, but conversations with wardy brought up a good point I haven't considered....
4-strokes are much louder!
I think keeping the db level down in Cali is a big deal already, but Wardy brought up the point that some tracks situated close to homes (like wardy's Megacross, for example, that has been around for years and is located in the Mendota fairgrounds right in town) are in danger as we begin to turn to four-strokes. Kinda sad to consider...
So I guess the sound level is another challenge that needs to be faced big time going forward. :think:
4-strokes are much louder!
I think keeping the db level down in Cali is a big deal already, but Wardy brought up the point that some tracks situated close to homes (like wardy's Megacross, for example, that has been around for years and is located in the Mendota fairgrounds right in town) are in danger as we begin to turn to four-strokes. Kinda sad to consider...
So I guess the sound level is another challenge that needs to be faced big time going forward. :think:
The noise issue is real. At my place its not uncommon to have 4 or five folks go out with my boys. All I hear are the four strokes. Thats all my neigbors hear as well. I find the big four stroke 4 wheelers sound as obnoxios as they act out there. I can only imagin what those non riding folks are thinking about my 2000 VOR and the other loud fourstrokes out there. Over time this will not work in our favor.
Jackpiner57
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- Aug 11, 2002
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I think there should be separate classes for 2 and 4 strokes
125 2 stroke class
200 2 stroke class
250 2 stroke class
open 2 stroke class
125 4 stroke class
250 4 stroke class
open 4 stroke class
or something along these lines. :think:
125 2 stroke class
200 2 stroke class
250 2 stroke class
open 2 stroke class
125 4 stroke class
250 4 stroke class
open 4 stroke class
or something along these lines. :think:
nikki said:
Exactly! Chew on this for a little while. About 3 months ago a local car dirt track was closed down permanently because of noise. As crazy as it sounds the city closed them down and the track was just outside the city. Now I know this is not quite the same, but the same think could happen. I voted by 07. As for the nitch market. I see maybe, only KTM filling any need for a 125 at some point in the future.
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Jackpiner57
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- Aug 11, 2002
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MXR842, You are probably right. I don't race MX anyway, but my point was that racing a 250 4-stroke against a 125 2-stroke is not fair in the first place.
So when the 2-strokes can't keep up with a bike with twice the displacement, it's time to get rid of the 2-stroke? I guess that time is already here.
Well, it will be simpler with just a 250 and 450 class huh?
Bike racing will suffer a great loss in my opinion.
To me it just doesn't make sense.
So when the 2-strokes can't keep up with a bike with twice the displacement, it's time to get rid of the 2-stroke? I guess that time is already here.
Well, it will be simpler with just a 250 and 450 class huh?
Bike racing will suffer a great loss in my opinion.
To me it just doesn't make sense.
Jackpiner, go back and read some of the posts in this thread and you'll see the displacement point has been made about a dozen times. It's all about moving the goalposts to achieve the desired result, not fairness, which is why it doesn't make sense to you.
The AMA is looking more and more like NASCAR every day. This totally reminds me of how NASCAR killed the big blocks and hemis in 1971 and forced everyone to a 355 CID or smaller engine by changing the rules. All the cars are pretty much the same now, with innovation limited "to keep the cost of racing down." Remember, too, that most of these 4 stroke dirt bikes are trickle down technology from the street bikes, so not a lot of incremental R&D for the manufacturers. So it's all about $$ now, especially sponsorship $$. I think it's clear that this is where the AMA is going; will be interesting to see what the Europeans and rest of the world do.
The AMA is looking more and more like NASCAR every day. This totally reminds me of how NASCAR killed the big blocks and hemis in 1971 and forced everyone to a 355 CID or smaller engine by changing the rules. All the cars are pretty much the same now, with innovation limited "to keep the cost of racing down." Remember, too, that most of these 4 stroke dirt bikes are trickle down technology from the street bikes, so not a lot of incremental R&D for the manufacturers. So it's all about $$ now, especially sponsorship $$. I think it's clear that this is where the AMA is going; will be interesting to see what the Europeans and rest of the world do.
factorykx125
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- Feb 20, 2004
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two strokes live on!!
So what if the 4-strokes make more power. I will always own a 2-stroke no matter what they say. The last year they make them ill go buy one. Look at what honda did with thier 250r 4-wheeler. they stopped making it in 89' but look i bet it is the most popular quad around here. What im trying to say is the two stroke will never die. They can do what ever they want but I cant live without the 2- stroke snap out of a turn or just the shear fun of one. I rode my friends 250f and that bike was sweet. I just dont like the engine braking and the way it feels. I guess i would have to get used to it. But the fact is if they ban 2-strokes there is going to be no more variety,and the big five will only have 4-strokes to sell. we all no that wont be any fun, youll only have 5 bikes to chose from per cc size or class. TWO-STROKES 4 EVER!!! :yeehaw:
So what if the 4-strokes make more power. I will always own a 2-stroke no matter what they say. The last year they make them ill go buy one. Look at what honda did with thier 250r 4-wheeler. they stopped making it in 89' but look i bet it is the most popular quad around here. What im trying to say is the two stroke will never die. They can do what ever they want but I cant live without the 2- stroke snap out of a turn or just the shear fun of one. I rode my friends 250f and that bike was sweet. I just dont like the engine braking and the way it feels. I guess i would have to get used to it. But the fact is if they ban 2-strokes there is going to be no more variety,and the big five will only have 4-strokes to sell. we all no that wont be any fun, youll only have 5 bikes to chose from per cc size or class. TWO-STROKES 4 EVER!!! :yeehaw:
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