Is Ricky better on a 250 2t in supercross?

[rodH]

Seems like he does ride as well on the 450, sort of like he is just hanginig on, versus working the bike (driving VS Riding). That whoop section seemed like he just lost control of the bike based on its wt and it just started skipping sideways. Does his ht/wt make him a better 250 VS 450 rider???

I wonder that if he keeps struggling in SX, maybe he will switch to the 250?

 

[JST122]

I think he can ride either bike just as well and with the rest of the top competition on 4 bangers I think he will stay on it. He definitely looked a lot more competitive this weekend than he did just a few weeks ago in Canada. The fall was just a run of bad luck, he was blitzing those whoops with amazing speed. He even blew by Stewart in the whoops and made him look slow. It just shows that with the pace these guys are running someone is bound to make a mistake, and if one of the top guys falls, there is no way they are going to catch up with Stewart and Carmichael both running nearly the same pace. I think these last few losses, and especially this one with a fall, just motivate Ricky more. He is not out of it yet, and I would not be surprised to see him back on top of the box in Phoenix.

Id like to see Reed put up a little bit more of a challenge, but he is typically a slow starter so maybe we will see some more speed out of him later in the season. I just hope it is not too late, I would really love to see a close 3-way battle for the championship.

 

[Zenith]

I didn't think RC looked too bad on the 450, but I thought Bubba was struggling a bit with his. He doesn't appear to be any faster then the end of last season, but it looked like he was working a lot harder then on the 250?

 

[XRpredator]

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke :|

 

[Ryone]

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke :|

and you'll use any and every opening to point that out :think:

RC went down in the same spot that JS did in practice and MC did in his heat race. Height, weight, 4-stroke, smoker... doesn't matter. He went down... made a mistake... it happens when you're going that fast. Stewart wasn't going slow in the whoops by any means... he got passed by RC in the whoops when Stewart backed off a little (the reason why he's staying on 2 wheels now). RC's front wheel dipped down in the whoops a few laps later and that was all it took.

RC is looking like Stewart did last year, and vice versa. RC is trying to prove something on every lap (it seems) while JS is being patient and smart. The main thing is that Bubba is keeping pace with RC and Reed while staying in his comfort zone. He's not pushing the edge that RC seems to be pushing.

Ryan

 

[Papakeith]

pred you are such a turd

 

[Vic]

RC is looking like Stewart did last year, and vice versa. RC is trying to prove something on every lap (it seems) while JS is being patient and smart. The main thing is that Bubba is keeping pace with RC and Reed while staying in his comfort zone. He's not pushing the edge that RC seems to be pushing.

Looks that way to me, too.

 

[dante]

Looks that way to me, too.

I think your both wrong, I don't think RC is trying to prove anything... He just crashed in the whoops which were really tough... Everyone crashed in them either in practice or a heat... Those whoops were very deep. I would'nt read to much into it... I think RC would have won A1 were it not for that crash... Personally I thought he looked better than he did in Canada. Even with the crash he still took a podium spot... I also think the four stroks make it look more effortless than wringing the necks of those 2-strokes... Mcgrath was like 12th or something, with DV right behind... You'd think they both should be within the top ten...

my 2 cents, opinion and speculation...

 

[Ryone]

I agree with you about great riders crashing there... JS and MC both crashed there. I also agree that RC looked a lot better at A1 than he did in Canada.

I may be reading too much into it, but it just seems to me that RC is trying to get out front right away while JS is just being patient and waiting for others mistakes. A year ago, it would've been JS trying to pass them both as soon as possible. We've now seen three races where JS bites his time and lets the race come to him. As soon as he's made the pass for the lead (after being patient for 5, 10 or 15 laps), he's gapped both Reed and RC. I still root for RC, but I'll admit when Bubba beats him straight up.

As far as RC (or anyone) riding a 2-stroke... my theory on the whole 2t and 4t thing is this:

The starts are so important right now that no one wants to give up the pulling power of the thumper (and risk getting a worse start) just to be a little more nimble on the tight stuff. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, the thumpers are advantageous now because they're as light as the smokers and ALMOST as nimble. Plus, RC and Reed rode the thumpers all summer long and they (admittedly) felt more confident on them.

Ryan

 

[Moteaux]

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke :|

and you'll use any and every opening to point that out

Yet another one pointed out by Pred. I think we all know your position by now...

 

[XRpredator]

and you'll use any and every opening to point that out :think:

Just pointing back, demonstrating absurdity by being absurd.

I guess by being a turd, too. :)

 

[ellandoh]

i think RC likes an early lead, and likes working his way through the pack less than others do . he is so used to being out front he doesnt seem to be the man when it comes to working up from behind. i saw him get caught and passed last year more than once from lapped traffic holding him up , making him work around them then 2nd place takes him . its not as noticeable with the other two contenders. he really needs a good start or it drains the life out of him JMO

 

[i_955]

Is Ricky better on a 250 2t in supercross?

Why, YES, of coarse he is.

He is being forced to ride that bike he is on by the evil overbore lords of never be able to ride here again land.

hehehe

 

[rodH]

sour grapes.

2 stroke whiners will find anything they can to whine about a 4 stroke :|

Actually I just got a CRF250R, I am not sure I am gonna keep it, I don't like it as much as the 2 stroke. Its OK, cause my lil bro wants it (He has never riden a 2 stroke and is scared to death of them). haha

 

[rodH]

the thumpers are advantageous now because they're as light as the smokers and ALMOST as nimble.

Ryan

Ummm, no there not.

 

[rodH]

here is a little sample Dirt Rider actual wts, no gas

YZ250=220#
YZF250=221#
YZF450=234#

the problem is, even works bikes will be lighter, but all the components will or could be basically the same, except that the motor in a 250 2t will always be lighter than even a YZF250, and the wt will be higher in the frame. The 2t will always be lighter unless the manuf start putting 10 year old/heavier parts on the 2t.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

I would like to see RC back on the 250, he always appears smoother and faster in the corners when SXing. I'm sure he's on the 450 for a reason, just hope it's really his first choice. A riders height has a tremendous influence on abilities...........RC has always had outstanding corner speed, because he's short.........but has always paid the price in stadium whoops because he can't get much of his weight to the back of the bike. Look at some of the best whoop riders.....taller guys. I do agree that RC does not dominate indoors like outdoors, and looks like he's riding on the ragged edge. Looks to me like Bubba may get the title this year, and if he does, he obviously deserves it.........but it will take me a bit to forget his past obnoxious arrogance........this year he has the opportunity to prove his "bark matches the bite." I think he owes that to all of us, and himself.........

 

[Vic]

here is a little sample Dirt Rider actual wts, no gas

YZ250=220#
YZF250=221#
YZF450=234#

the problem is, even works bikes will be lighter, but all the components will or could be basically the same, except that the motor in a 250 2t will always be lighter than even a YZF250, and the wt will be higher in the frame. The 2t will always be lighter unless the manuf start putting 10 year old/heavier parts on the 2t.

I believe there are minimum weight limits and the works 450s are as light as the two strokes.

 

[i_955]

I believe there are minimum weight limits and the works 450s are as light as the two strokes.

It would be awesome to see some real weight numbers.

I recall hearing the announcers saying the 4 strokes are still heavier and riding styles must be revised to deal with the extra power & weight, but without some actual #'s we can only smile and nod. :nod:

 

[rodH]

I believe there are minimum weight limits and the works 450s are as light as the two strokes.

there might be minimum wt limits, but I would highly doubt that they are the same as the stock 250 2t, so lets say they allow 215# to be the limit, you know how hard it would be for a 450 to lose 20 pounds?? I use to race mountain bikes and work at a shop, I was a freak for getting my bike as light as I could. Even with the super trick parts, Titanium bolts, etc, etc......I would highly doubt that the 450 could lose that much wt. Anyone know any actual wts for these bikes?

Plus, like mentioned earlier, races and announcers have mentioned there is a wt difference with teh 4t.

 

[mxneagle]

I believe the factory KX450F that they are running is about 235lb ready to ride even after having all that Ti thrown at it!

 

[Ryone]

Ummm, no there not.

Ummm, yeah they are. Factory riders won't ride a heavier bike than they have to. The pros have the means to get their thumpers down to minimum weight, and they do just that.

 

[JST122]

The factory 450's are no question heavier than a 250 2T. They are going to be lighter than the production versions you and I can buy off the showroom floor, but there is no way that they are lighter than a 250 2T. In fact they are not lighter than a production 250 2T, so if you were to compare apples to apples and compare the weights of a factory 2T with a Factory 4T, I would venture the weight differential would be about the same as it is with the production versions. Not to mention even at a lighter weight the center of gravity of a 4T is going to be higher regardless just due to its design.

But I guess the question this forum started to attempt to answer was if Carmichael would be better off on 2T's in SX. My opinion on that is if any of the top guys really felt that it was an advantage for them to be on the 2T, they would be. With the competition so close in skill, they are looking for whatever edge that they can find and if any of the top 3 were faster on the 2T they would be riding it. They are not just going to ride the 4T because the other top guys are if they are actually slower on it. That makes no sense. If you listen to the rider interviews you will see that they say they are either slightly faster on the 4T or lap times are very similar with both. At the same time, if Reed, Stewart, and Carmichael were all on 2T right now or one or two of them were, the top three on the podium would be the same. They are head and shoulders above the rest on whatever they are on.

 

[ellandoh]

they were all on 2s last year and kept windham in the rear view mirror on his 4 as well as everyone else

 

[Ryone]

The dry weight limits in 2006 are:

SX Lites: 194 lbs
SX: 216 lbs

Ricky's 450 is CLAIMED to be at 220 lbs (click on "CLAIMED")

Although this may not be the actual weight of his race bike, it's very possible for the thumpers to lose a lot of weight from stock with magnesium hubs and clamps, titanium parts, lighter wheels, etc...

Ryan