Riding style in Woods?

[mgorman]

Everywhere you go you'll find something different. Western Pa., W. VA and the east side of Ohio are full of clay and tree roots littered with rocks. No sand, no Kitty litter and what whoops that do develope are hard as rocks and usualy have rocks and roots embedded in them.

Water filled clay ruts are another fun time to be had. But that's another story. Just ask slammer...

 

[BadgerMan]

In Michigan, when we get tired of riding sand whoops, we go over to Drummond Island for a day of riding moon rocks! You really learn to appreciate sand after a day of riding "the rock".

 

[mgorman]

We do the same at the Marienville trail in Pa. We have to work Ben up to that. We want him to atleast last 2 laps. Unfortunately by the time we get him there, it will have been bulldozed into another **** trail.

My friend Slammer loves to ride in Michigan.

 

[BenjaminPQ]

Much appreciated advice guys:)

Like Mike mentioned, we have been testing a lot of bikes and I have spent the most time on Mike's XR250 and on my 300MXC. I know the XR250 makes me a better rider and I think I now understand why. I don't think it's necessarily a better bike then my KTM, I just can't handle the power. I need a more mellow bike, that is SETUP CORRECTLY and TAKEN CARE OF, that's why I'm faster on the XR.

Now, about my bike. I thought it was just my 300 that sucked. However when I rode Dozer's 300EXC, like the XR, it felt better. Not as good as the XR but better then mine. Dozer's bike had newer tires, better setup suspension, and had smoother power. So like you said I could make my bike tons better but I think the power would still be too much. Live and learn I guess. :think

I would also like thank you, Mike, for just taking the time with me. I really appreciate all the help and advice. If not for all your help I might have a CR500 with over stiff suspension and then I would really be slow! I owe you thanks cause we both know your not getting any advice from me. :D

 

[TexKDX]

Hey Benj,

Setup on the 300 (and many bikes for that matter) is everything. I am lucky enough to have both a '99 300E and a '99 XR250 (now 280). I too believe the Honda makes me a better rider, teaching me how to keep my speed up entering corners and using the natural berms to maintain momentum thru the corners. The 300 can be ridden the same way, however braking becomes more important because you can gather speed so much faster between turns.

The Honda also teaches you how steady throttle can help your riding in the whoops. Because the Honda doesn't accelerate abruptly, I find that getting my timing down on the whoops is much easier on it. It also showed me that the rear shock on the 300 had too much preload which causes the front end to look for the bottom of the whoops rather than letting you skim across the tops.

If times got tight and I had to get down to one dirtbike, I'd have to say the XR would win out. It is so versatile, durable, and fun to ride. No, not the big balls thrust and whoop blasting of the KTM, but overall a great machine.

Lastly, the comment earlier about the little XR's fork flex being gone does not track with my experience. Those 40mm forks respond well to the Summers brace. xrsforever's bike has one and it is loads more stable in the front than mine without; I just don't want to give up the fork boots!!

 

[mgorman]

Tex,

Glad to hear that someone else owned both those bikes at the same time except my ktm 300 was a '93 mxc back when WP's were the forks. My 300 was getting very old and I WAS retiring from racing. (thanks Robyn!) The XR stayed. I guess I am going to have to pay attention to those forks flexing. Of all the races, I never noticed. Or maybe I was too busy fearing for my life...

mg

 

[moto614]

pin it till it hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mgorman]

I would but my arm would pump up before it wound out...

 

[BadgerMan]

I have never had a problem with the suspension action of a good conventional cartridge fork such as the ’99 KTM’s. I have noticed that you get more precise steering with an upside down fork. I could even tell the difference between my friend’s KTM (with the mammoth conventional units) and my YZF. It is personal preference (due to how and where I ride) but I have come to really like the steering feel of an upside down fork.

The SRC brace helped the XR that I rode take a step in the direction of an upside down front end by making the steering more precise and confidence inspiring. You are right in that it does not measurably affect suspension action.

Yeah Tex, it’s a shame that you have to lose your fork boots and butcher your front fender but I guess if it saves a crash or two it’s worth it. My old ‘86er is only used for dual sporting and chasing the youngin’s around but if I acquire another newer XR, the brace will be high on my list of add-ons.

 

[pedesktm]

I can say that smooth contolled momentum is the best way. As stated before, aggressive gas-clutch-brake slide-downshift-gas-release clutch is required at times on tight turns. Some points I have been taught are:
1) Stand up, weight on the balls of your feet. Allows for quick body position adjustments and allows the bike to move freely under you. Always weight the outside peg while tuning.
2) When taking flat fast turns, keep the gas on, clutch it and let the back end break loose a bit. that way your turning with the back wheel. Basically pivoting on the front wheel into the direction you want to turn.
3) When in tight woods, Aim your front wheel at the outside tree then turn. It provide a berm of sort and when going between two trees your bars are not as wide. If going between 2 trees that are narrower than your bars, turn through the trees quickly (If that makes sense) Quick left , then right, then straighten out. THis also makes your bars narrower than the opening and you can maintain sometype of momentum.
4) Remember that your right hand is the gas, your left hand is your throttle control. Maintain engine rpms but control how that power is deliverd to the ground with the clutch. When we practice, we make a habit of making sure we have no wheel spin. You will use alot less energy and stay in much better control.
5) Start slow and learn the technique then apply what you learned into your practice. Not everytime you ride does it have to be a race. You will learn through repetition what works and what doesn't.
6) Practice, practice, practice. Have a friend who rides well follow you and give your pointers.
7) Have fun!! Find time to "Play"on your bike. Ride wheelies, do front stoppies, whatever. That way you become very familiar with how your bike will handle on certain situations.
This is enough for now!! Just my $.02:D

 

[drtbikesrule]

i prefer the momentum method i cant stand hopping on my brakes then pinning the throttle on a little stretch!

 

[mgorman]

If you ride an XR250 like I do, momentum is your only way to go fast. Pinning it takes as long as just rolling it on!

 

[FOO-FOO BIKE]

You need to remember three things momentum, momentum, and momentum.Oh yea I lied, once you start riding with momentum instead of gas and cut you better look where you want to go and not at all the nasties because if you hit the nasties at the speeds you'll be going compared to the cut/gas thing it's going to hurt. And we all know we go where we are looking.Listen to us old guys with the foo-foo bikes (xr 250, KTM 200) less motor more momentum=faster.

 

[ktmboy]

One of the fastest guys I ride with is on a YZ 250F, and he outweighs me by at least 30 lbs., and he leaves me in his dust! Why? Momentum. In the tight nasties, where my over-powered 360 is a handful, he doesn't even slow down! So much for "foo-foo" bikes! '95 percent rider, 5 percent bike', right!:confused:

 

[TexKDX]

With about 35 HP on tap, the KTM 200 is far from a foo-foo bike!!! Same for the YZF250. Granted the same riding techniques make all 3 of them go fast thru the woods, but the only foo-foo listed in the past few threads is the baby XR.

 

[ktmboy]

I've had the pleasure of riding both the KTM200, and the YZ250F, and would choose either of those 2 bikes to do battle in the twisties, as they are both definately not 'foo-foo' bikes!:D

 

[mgorman]

In our group 250 thumps and 200 and under smokers are all foo foo bikes.

In 20 years of racing and more than 20 motorcycles I have raced everything from a XL125 up to 560 Can-Am and from a 250 Husky to a KTM500. Every bike was fun to race except maybe the XL125. But then again it was my 1st bike to race and it got me a 6th place trophy in a 100 mile harescrable.

Any decent bike can be made to go fast. I totaly agree with KTMBoy that it is the rider in the woods as long as the bike has the suspension in the ball park and a good set of rubber.

A rider needs to be able to use all the power that is on tap. Power that can't be controlled usualy ends up waisting the riders energy.

Remember, my hero Scott Summers turned in his fastest lap times on a XR250. It was also his choice when riding hurt.

The only real advantage of HP in Ohio is to help you locate the next hardwood a little faster. In some cases it helps laid back trail riders shift less, right slammer?

The originator of this post, BenPQ needs to be on a tamer bike. Once he builds his confidence he can move back to an open class bike. The only time I miss my big bores is in the mountains. But then again, riding the foo-foo makes for a great challenge and I rarely back down from a good one.

Ben, make sure you check the trail ride section, we're going Saturday.

 

[BenjaminPQ]

I will agree, the baby thump is a foo foo bike, but if it make's me faster then so be it.

I have given my 300 a lot of time and I am comfortable on it when trial riding. I know this will sound strange but if was just going to trail ride and not race I would probably keep the 300, after all it is a lot of fun. I just had to come to grips with the fact that I am a beginner and the best bike for me right now is a "beginner bike." Kind of funny how I'm slower on the race bike then I am on the play bike. :think

I doubt very much that I will ever go back to an open class 2 stroke. Maybe an open class four stroke but not for a long time. I think the next bike after the XR250 will probably be a WR250F or another 250 four stroke enduro bike. Like MGORMAN said, I don't think you need much power in the tight stuff. You need to be able to turn quick and have power that you can control. You should only have as much power as you can handle or need.

 

[FOO-FOO BIKE]

There really isn't any foo-foo bikes, just foo-foo riders. But seriously go with the tamer engine it will definatly help you .

 

[trailhonda]

when i go through trees and trails i always pay attention to the whole trail and all the obstecles in my way so i dont hit one and eat it.i always try to go as fast as i can without hitting a corner and go flying the trail

 

[splatt]

I have found that I was faster on an old Yamaha IT 125 than my YZ 250.i used to be able keep up with my riding buddy who rides a RM 250 but only when suspension and hrsepower didn`t come into play.

 

[dozer]

Hey MR. PQ you sure started something with all these replys. I think you hit on a hot topic.

That 300 likes to push the front even with a new tire let alone a well used one. To make it change directions fast you'll need to steer from the rear. Move your weight up front and get the rear loose with a tap on the brake and let it pivot around. Practice in an open field with some targets to pivot around far away from those magnetic trees. After you get comfortable brake sliding it then start to get back on the gas just as you get pointed in your (not the bikes) direction of choice. After a while you can transition between brake sliding and roosting out of a turn with reasonable accuracy. Then you can roost slammer when he lets you hang in the trees without offering to help you out.

Short shifting that bike also helps keep it from going bezerk in the power band when your in the woods. Then when you get in a nice open area you can open it up and leave those pesky foo-foo bike noises behind. At least until the next tight section comes around the corner.

I agree the open bikes can be a bear in the woods but they sure are fun especially if the track has some long up hills. Just gas it and go. Even better when there is lots of power robing mud to slow those little foo foo bikes down.:p :p

 

[George A. kaloci]

I've read a lot of good information here and I think everyone is on the right track. Know your limits and ride as close to the edge as you dare. The horsepower issue is up to the rider. Only he knows how much he can handle. Everyone chooses a the kind of riding style that works for them. Some run and gun while others go with the flow. The main concern it ride as fast as you can and stomp your buddies, push them in the turns and make them work for that pass. This alone will make you faster and also make it fun.

Don't try and take each other out but ride at a good pace.
When foo foo rider, dozer and slammer go riding it always turn into short races or can you amke a new trail through the tight stuff (sorry Goreman).

Most of us have raced in the past or are still racing and developed our own styles that works for the speed that we ride at.
One more thing to remember,you are only as good as the people you ride with.
Dozer has gained a lot of speed in just the last year and foo foo rider is getting faster with each ride. You are just starting so give it some time.

Power is not the answer for tight eastern woods riding, control and flow works for me. I still have to work on the control part. :) :)

 

[BenjaminPQ]

Great posts guys.

Dozer, There is no doubt the 300 is a great bike, just not for me at the moment. Right now I need something controllable, that turns really well. I started to hate my bike and was beginning to not want to ride anymore. Actually, I was convinced that I had given up on dirt bikes and I had a **** picked out and everything. Then I rode the XR250 and it completely changed my mind about bikes. I was having fun again. Gorman will tell you, he couldn't ever ride his bike when we went trail riding cause I was always begging him to ride it. Not to mention I can keep up with the group on the XR whereas on my bike I fall behind within the first turn. I won't be on a XR250 forever, I'm sure I will be wanting more power eventually.

Slammer is right about how important it is to make little races out of trial rides to get faster. I benefit greatly from riding with you guys and I'm definitely pushed to go faster. Once I get a bike I am comfortable on, I should be up there with you guys on trail rides. Unfortunately, people like Gorman have no one to really dog them, although your all pretty fast, well, compared to me anyway.

This is still my first year that I really rode. Last year I only rode about 3 times and it was in fields. So I expect big improvements by this time next year. It's pretty exciting to know that just by switching bikes, I will increase my speed which means placing better in races. 95% rider 5% bike, I'm going to make that 5% count!;)

 

[FOO-FOO BIKE]

I can see that you guys (not BenPQ) are not only getting a little long in the tooth but also little long winded. Seriously, I have to agree, with everyone (that really hurts to say that) well maybe not everything that part about me getting faster everytime I ride with the Slammer is just the oppisite. We all know who has to wait for whom, now don't we. RIDE WHAT YOU LIKE and if you have questions ask, if one machine was best we wouldn't have any chioces, there would be only one made. Of course we ALL KNOW WHAT THAT IS , 200MXC, a.k.a. "wifes bike" , " girly bike' and the most famous FOO-FOO BIKE...

P.S. Dozer, you might want to check out the KTM forum, "which bike is better forGNCCs 200, 250, 300, 400, 520.