Anaheim 2 SPOILER

[Someone]

Why follow CA? Isn't CA the worse state in the union when it comes to air pollution? I may be wrong, but it seems that they're always talking about smog in Cali (like the weather forecasts include air quality reports).

Before people were saying no more two strokes after 2006, now it's 2010? Them will be some heavy ass leaf blowers and weed eaters.

 

[wardy]

Finally! i get to tell NIKKI your WRONG!!! :)

1. You forget i sat in the room that made BOTH the schoolboy rule and the 144 rule. I voted for the schoolboy rule and against the 144 rule. THE whole reason for schoolboy was that a 250 diesel is to much for a kid off an 80, (many women also). but the room was almost completely unanimous on this rule.
2. 144 was NOT supported by the whole room. it barely squeaked by and most everyone against insisted that it was a bandaid like stated.......that rule likley won't last more then this year.

3. Kawasaki makes 125's, the "rumor belief" that they are "gone for ever" is wrong, they don't import them here they sell them elsewhere. this was from the horse's mouth in that meeting.

4. Carb emmisions do NOT apply to closed course race bikes. Honda has not made a 2 stroke for off road for what 15 years maybe longer?

5. this is post is now becoming work LOL.

later

 

[JPIVEY]

Why follow CA? Isn't CA the worse state in the union when it comes to air pollution?

Because we are the trend setter, don'tchaknow :bang:

4. Carb emmisions do NOT apply to closed course race bikes. Honda has not made a 2 stroke for off road for what 15 years maybe longer?

Ahhh, but, the track and close course folks will and are going 4s, the offroad and trail folks won't have a choice.

5. this is post is now becoming work LOL.

and really long :rotfl:

 

[CJG]

I'm right with all you two-stroke lovers. But at some point we'll all have to face the fact that we're screwed. Not only are the enviro-nazis against us, but so are all the thumper lovers. As for the racing, I've watched the first few races this year but I'm getting bored of it already. It just gets old watching every guy on the track running almost exactly the same line- lap, after lap, after lap. I want to see guys trying new lines throughout the race. RC tried a different line once at A2 and almost ate it hard in the whoops. Yes, the racing has been close. But close racing to me doesn't necessarily equal exciting racing. Nascar is close racing. But if I had a choice between watching Nascar or the national spelling bee on ESPN, I'll watch the spelling bee. When the next supercross comes on I might watch it. That is unless the spelling bee is on.

It's wierd seeing all the pride the thumper guys(and gals) are taking in the fact that- for the first time ever- one guy, in one race was able to start his four-stroke in a single kick. Sounds like they were as surprised by it as I was. Pretty sad that the most exciting thing that could happen on a four-stroke is that you'll luck up and get it running on the first kick. :nener:

 

[Micahdawg]

2010 my azz. Here we are, 2006, and the rumors are still just rumors. These engines are used in chainsaws, weed-whackers, snow mobiles, boats, shifter-carts, etc... and all for very good reasons. Power to cc/weight ratio is awesome.

Considering the market for the extinct...."stick a fork in it" 1989 Honda 250R....I'm not gonna worry about the 2 stroke SX bike market disappearing for at least 20 years.

Micah

 

[Ryone]

I'm saying that the whole move to 4 strokes is a government regulated move

Am I the only one who realizes that the 4-stroke movement is due to outdated rules and rider friendly power instead of a government conspiracy? If I am just living in my own little world, at least people know me here...

Ryan

 

[XRpredator]

Am I the only one who realizes that the 4-stroke movement is due to outdated rules and rider friendly power instead of a government conspiracy? If I am just living in my own little world, at least people know me here...

Ryan

Ryan hits the nail on the head!

When the AMA made the rules, they said "No way will anyone whoop up on a 125 with an XR250! Hell, we'll even let them run up to 540ccs in the 250 class!"

Technology got ahead of the rules, and now the two strokes are getting their asses handed to them, even though everyone worked inside the rules.

 

[wardy]

hey pred,

they made the rules specifically to give the 4 stroke a "chance" to compete with 250 2 strokes. Anyone riding a 400 yamaha in 1998 understood the deal, but on big tracks we seen right away the power advantage.
Two things happened in those rule change deals.
the second being that a rider purchasing a diesel was only allowed to ride either 250 OR Open class on any race day. So if you wanted to race BOTH classes you had to have 2 bikes. (back to sales again) this rule in Ama was introduced, and pushed by the LL people backed by guess who. Yam.

Now that the rules are behind (you are correct!) we need to change them.

I plan to submit rule changes to stop or revert back to no handi capping in the classes. We currently are running 250s and 450's . So it needs to be 250 class and Open class. Bring back the 125 class since they likely will make a diesel to run with them some day soon? Or do people honestly think we should put our 10 year olds on 125's in the mini classes?

Of course if that don't work, then we could bump up the cc's to a "real" competitive bike size, lets say 200cc? who knows. KTM, Suzuki, Honda, Kaw, was sitting in the room and offering help with this last season. MX rules committee which i am on. KTM stood right there and said, you guys make the rules to increase the 2 stroke higher we will likely build the bike........ needless to say there was alot of groans in the rooom.

be sure of one thing.

It will be hashed out this october on the amatuer side of things to make it a more level playing field.

:)

 

[XRpredator]

. . . we could bump up the cc's to a "real" competitive bike size, lets say 200cc? who knows. KTM, Suzuki, Honda, Kaw, was sitting in the room and offering help with this last season. MX rules committee which i am on. KTM stood right there and said, you guys make the rules for the 2 stroke higher we will likely build the bike

I would rather see that (increase the displacement for two strokes, and allow it for older bikes) than decrease it for the 4-strokes (a much harder proposition). Don't penalize someone for taking advantage of a rule.

Changing it to "displacement equity" would be the loser's way out, IMO.

 

[wardy]

I would agree with that idea also.

 

[Micahdawg]

For once...I agree with Pred. Ruling out the current 250/450 bikes would be a slap in the face. It makes much more sense to bring the 125/250 cc's up to 185/310. Now that would be fun.

Micah

 

[Vic]

Even if the 2s are allowed to grow large enough to equal the power of the 4s, the 4s will still have an an advantage.

 

[XRpredator]

Even if the 2s are allowed to grow large enough to equal the power of the 4s, the 4s will still have an an advantage.

and that advantage would be?

Horsepower? you already said "equal"

Weight? More than likely the two stroke will always "feel" lighter, and be lighter for cheaper

Maintenance? I thought everyone was chirping that 4-strokes cost more to maintain

Fill us in, mango.

 

[Chili]

and that advantage would be?

Traction/Torque.

 

[HiG4s]

And what a cute little........ Oops I better not your say that, Red will beat me up!!! :laugh: :laugh:

Actually Tyler Evans has ridden the RMZ450 the last two rounds as well, so the bike must be better and the ride of CHOICE. Tyler is totally anti-factory and he would ride the 2 smoke just to rub it in there face. The majority of the field is now 4 stroke, even the privateers who does not have a factory telling them what to do, so I don't buy the "factory made me ride this theory". I was once a two stroke die hard, but have recently seen the light and love my 4 stroke. :ride:

Stop trying to confuse the issue with facts :bang:

 

[Zoomer]

Just got back from the test tracks in Corona CA.

MC still hauling on the 450
Preston was realing him in
Short was realing Preston in.

Hepler looked.....not in it today
Tedesco riding ok

Ramsey hauling the mail!!

I got tired just watching.

Damm can't wait for the snow to leave in Wisc!

 

[Vic]

and that advantage would be?


Fill us in, mango.

The wider powerband and smoother delivery makes them easier to ride. You, of all people, should know this. :nod:


Mango? :ohmy:

 

[john3_16]

Am I the only one who realizes that the 4-stroke movement is due to outdated rules and rider friendly power instead of a government conspiracy? If I am just living in my own little world, at least people know me here...

Ryan

No, you're not the only one...But some people also believe the gov. inflation figure of 2.8 percent is an accurate measure of increasing costs of living in the U.S. economy. Now why in the world would the gov. want to give a bogus inflation figure ? There are a long list of reasons...Just ask the poor fellow that's holding U.S. debt instruments that pay less interest than the REAL inflation rate why he's paying taxes on interest payments that he actually lost money on because of the rising costs of goods and services.





Back to environmental regs...Car manufacturers are also subject to EPA regulations and the end product must comply. Gas mileage standards come to mind...And the car manufacturers found a cheaper way to help meet these new EPA "goals" by the switch to using lighter weight oils in the engines...It's called CAFE regulations.

Is it any wonder that the drive in 4 stroke machines also occured simultaneously with MOTOGP ???

Have you ever heard of the KYOTO treaty ?

This is serious stuff because there are organizations that would like to see off road riding banned altogether.

 

[Micahdawg]

If a 250 can OWN the 450, then how would a 310 not?

Micah

 

[ellandoh]

If a 250 can OWN the 450, then how would a 310 not?

Micah

i am the biggest two stroke die hard i know, so could you please point me in the direction to find an example of a 250 "owning" :think: a 450 because i havent seen that in a long time?? or was that just to troll for more 2 vs 4 ?????

 

[Micahdawg]

Plenty of examples in 2005 SX and MX. Bubba on a 250 two stroke outdoor setting fastest lap times? Whether that is due to the bike or the rider is a different thing, but it does prove that the differences are not so great that a good rider can't overcome them. As opposed to say, Bubba on a 125 vs. Windham on a 450. Even Bubba couldn't ring enough out of a 125.

Micah

 

[Okiewan]

Bubba and RC's complaints about the 2-T outdoors was the amount of work it took to compete on the 2-T...

 

[Micahdawg]

Which is a valid point as well, but my point was if the 250 can "technically" get the job done, then a 310 option should make it a little easier to get the job done.

As for the example, I specifically remember Broome Tioga last year in the 2nd Moto, Bubba pulled the quickest lap time and he was one of only 4 (of 37 total) who was on a two smoke.

 

[Ryone]

I don't remember Bubba EVER pulling a faster lap time that RC in MX. Bubba was consistently 4 to 5 seconds behing RC's fastest lap in practice, and RC beat bubba by 30 seconds, 40 seconds, a minute, etc... Where are you getting your info?

 

[Micahdawg]

http://www.amaproracing.com/prorace/raceres/mx/otimes.asp?type=m&cls=m2&snct=p7130&year=2005&rnum=2