Phoenix Spoiler

[J_dem_Bones]

Originally posted by JuliusPleaser
Please. I've seen several frame-by-frame sequences of the first and second turns. Vuillemin pulled the EXACT same move on Windham. The only difference is that Windham let off long wnough for DV to get by. DV almost went down when he hit K-dub the first time. If Kevin's bike hadn't been there for DV to launch off, DV would have low-sided.

Kudos to K-dub for jamming it right back in DV's face.

I agree to that!!!!!! DV moved over into KW, he could have taken the inside line!!!! He intentionaly pushed KW up and then squared into him! Just look at the frames. Plus I was sitting right there, 10th row up!

 

[Jon K.]

I just looked at the RacerX poll. Looks like 90% of their readers want to see Rollerball / WWF!

I am sticking to my guns. Rollerball / WWF is bad and I am glad the AMA is taking steps. Kevin (my neighbor!) is not the guy whom I would have thought would be the "example", and I hate to see it happen to such a good guy, but hey! You gotta start at the start!

 

[D Lafleur]

Hey Jon, I saw a picture of you jumping that ya-ma-ha, you been taking lessons from that neighbor? I like that flashy riding gear.

 

[Jon K.]

Darin "Smack-talk" Lafleur!

That riding gear is the only thing I had that would fit around my ample belly! :eek: Too bad those Jpegs don't have sound; you would have heard me screaming!

 

[D Lafleur]

We need to go to a Hare Scramble together, we can check each other into the hay bales for last place.
Take a look at the new sig. I got me one O them electric start noise makers.

 

[Okiewan]

Originally posted by Jon K.
IKevin (my neighbor!) is not the guy whom I would have thought would be the "example", and I hate to see it happen to such a good guy

Exactly, who'd ah thunk it? I still say, Good for KDub... take the 10 points, to prove that you won't get pushed around is worth it IMHO.

 

[SpectraSVT]

Originally posted by JuliusPleaser
Please. I've seen several frame-by-frame sequences of the first and second turns. Vuillemin pulled the EXACT same move on Windham. The only difference is that Windham let off long wnough for DV to get by. DV almost went down when he hit K-dub the first time. If Kevin's bike hadn't been there for DV to launch off, DV would have low-sided.

Kudos to K-dub for jamming it right back in DV's face.

How do you figure? DV was right along side of KW then pushed him out. 2nd turn KW was no where near DV entering the turn. How is this the same? I'm not saying DV's pass wasn't aggressive. I don't think KW's move was the best way to send the msg back. If he would have just raced and passed him clean and beat him straight up then that makes him all the better as a rider cause he didn't have to resort to dirting riding to do it. Which he has been doing for 10 years. You can be aggressive without parking somebody.

 

[JPIVEY]

Originally posted by Jon K.


Yeah, rubbin' is racin', but when you take it too far, racing suffers. It starts to become Rollerball, or the WWF.

I'm with you on this one, it's like you tune in the watch a WWF show and a race broke out..............sad, it's like they're playing to the cameras

You want to see some good , clean , fast racing with excellent track coverage, turn on some Canadian MX, there's rub'n and there's blocks, but in two years I have never seen the kinds of BS takeouts that you see in our races.

Remember the movie RollerBall, the promoter condones the cheap shots to improve his TV rating

 

[hoosierf]

Must not be any French racing in Canada!? Sorby, DV, Roncada, .... any one see a trend here? JMB was no prize either.

 

[JuliusPleaser]

Spectra. . have you even SEEN the video captures that are floating around the web?

This is turn one. Where the hell is DV going? The apex is located in the opposite direction from his direction of travel. You can argue til the cows come home, but the picture speaks volumes. DV tried to take KW out, plain and simple. The rest of the capture series looks even worse. I'll post every frame if I have to. And you really think KW has been a dirty rider for ten years? Apparently you're a little confused, or maybe jealous because your girl thinks Kevin is hot. KW is one of the nicest guys (on and off the track) that you will ever meet.

Click for pic

 

[JPIVEY]

Originally posted by JuliusPleaser


picture speaks volumes.

Hell yeah it does, so you can't fault him for showing DV how it's done, but( and I don't pretend to be an expert ) KW is in a postion to square that corner off and put some milage between them, which would have played heavy on DV mind, more so than bending him over a tuff block, IMO

 

[JuliusPleaser]

Look at this pic. Same turn, milliseconds later.

 

[JuliusPleaser]

And this one. . .

The difference is that KW was smart/quick/lucky enough to chop the throttle and nail the brakes in time to keep from being punted. It's the exact same situation, and if DV had conceded the turn like Kevin did, he wouldn't have crashed.

 

[JPIVEY]

Hey JP, I just went to that site and watched the clip over and over, DV appears to be looking at the ground in front of him and the instant he looks forward he nails KW, I don't think Kevin had a big a role in that as it's being made out to be...................I don't know, but I going to go watch it again

 

[jboomer]

I still don't see the comparison. DV had a slight intercept on KW going into the turn...yes, an aggressive block pass was planned, but nothing too serious that anyone normally would get worked up about.
However, KW's path of travel was perpendicular to DV's on his retaliation move. Definitely an extremely aggressive move with (IMO) the intention of putting DV down. I still think there's no way in heck that DV knew KW was coming in like that until the last couple of feet before impact (which was covered in a "milisecond" with ZERO opportunity to avoid the collision).
I saw the race, I've seen the replays, and I've seen the pictures. The pictures are a little misleading because they don't convey properly the speed involved, but if you take that into consideration, I believe they reinforce my opinions.

 

[Jon K.]

JP; I was not going to get into this aspect of the argument. I really wasn't. . . . . . . .

In your last photo; DV has already made his turn, has gotten pointed down the track, and has pulled the trigger. And still has left just a tiny bit of room for his competitor.

Close? Yes. Aggressive? Yes. Here's the deal the way I see it; DV made an aggressive pass. It was not a take-out move.

Kevin's move looks to me to be a take-out move pure and simple. I believe he could have MADE THE PASS without any contact, or at least raced with DV down the next section, but chose to stuff DV into the cheap seats.

Of course; we can sit comfortably at the keyboard and take hours to analyze what takes a mere fraction of a second on the track.

I think the AMA did good. It just sux that it was K-Dub.

Kevin could have and should have beat the man straight up. IMHO

 

[JPIVEY]

Ohhhhhhh, to be a paint can :worship: :laugh:

 

[atc3434`]

DV made use of all the avalible track to keep KW at bay, and KW did the same on the next cornor. The difference... DV went down. DV had to know K-dub would be hot on him, he really should have been looking for him. You don't run a guy all the way to the haybails and then forget about it by the next cornor. Both guys were racing hard. I think DV fell because he was commited once he started blasting out of the cornor. But just like he did the cornor before, KW used all the track to get infront of him. KW saw it come and shut it off, DV didn't have time to shut it off, his own fault for not looking IMO. Just hard racing by both competitors. Sure wasn't a Matt Walker stuff into the finish line scafolding!

 

[JuliusPleaser]

Like I said before - KW didn't go down because he reacted quickly enough to keep from being mugged. DV used him for traction, and if Kevin had kept it pinned like DV did in the next turn, KW would have been the one on the ground.

Boomer, there's a definite comparison. DV is headed away from the apex - just like Kevin was.

Jon, KW made the room. DV didn't. It's that simple. DV chose to keep it pinned, and he paid the consequences.

 

[Jon K.]

JP; I completely understand and see some merit in your point.

You say tomato, I say toMAto. :thumb:

 

[SpectraSVT]

Talk about different points of view! I've watched the video about 50 times and still think the same as I did before. Just have to agree to disagree on that point. Your entitled to view however you want.

I didn't say KW has been a dirty rider for ten years...I said he should have waited and passed him cleanly just like he's been doing for the past 10 years.

 

[fender92883]

When I watched the video...when K-Dub took out DV...it also looked like KW took that way inside line to keep the other guys in that pack away from him. He cut way inside so he wouldn't lose position. There are bikes all over the place...he took his line that he committed to and tried to work with it by putting a block pass on DV, and he would've pulled it off if DV hadn't rammed him like that. Going by both DV's and KW's track records, I'd say that it was a clean block pass gone wrong...and DV got what he had coming!

 

[JuliusPleaser]

Originally posted by SpectraSVT
I didn't say KW has been a dirty rider for ten years...I said he should have waited and passed him cleanly just like he's been doing for the past 10 years.

Sorry about that. You're right - he really is a clean rider.

Vuillemin should have been prepared for a retaliatory move. Obviously he thought that he had punted Kevin off the track, so he never expected KW to be there.

SURPRISE! :p

I don't condone rough riding, but there's a fine line between aggression and dirty riding. KW did nothing wrong, and a 10 point penalty is outrageous.

 

[mxer842]

look at the first corner, KW is going straight, hes barely begun to turn at the end of the corner, he got put up so bad by DV. and if you ask me DV was a bit of an idiot for taking an outside line with KW hot on his tail like he was, its hard to miss the sound of a 450, DV knew he was back there!!!

 

[MXFastGuy]

DV made an aggressive pass. KW made a take out move. BIG difference. Anybody who's raced MX knows. Both were in the wrong, but KW more so.

JMO