Time for a name change?
- Thread starter bclapham
- Start date
Ol'89r
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- Jan 27, 2000
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Okiewan said:
:ohmy: Ya know Okie, those Brits are slow to accept technology. After all, look at how long refrigerators have been around and they still drink warm beer. :laugh:
"The sweetest sound in the world is the sound of a thousand two-strokes, all seizing at once." :aj:
The late/great Jim Hunter
Thump
Jr Admin Type
- Jan 17, 2000
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Well 40 times in a year elevates your status to a "Pro-Convenience" racer. LOLbclapham said:
I have been riding in the dirt for 6 years, 4 years MX. Despite my age, I am a newbie to the sport. Knowing how much fun it is now I wish I had started sooner, but street bikes were my thing back then.
- Jun 15, 2001
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...then Jody's oughta last a while.
Man, Bruce. I thought you had more brain matter than to stand there and listen to that moron tell you that a motor with more parts breaks easier. ;) You should have taken that moment to look at him blankly and say "Duh?"
I'm neither here nor there on this whole thing anymore, mainly because i'm convinced that in one way or another, I'll always be able to find a 2 stroke or fabricate one, if necessary since these technologies may get 'stunned', but do not disappear entirely.
The Wankel is an example of a motor that came, went, stayed away, then came back.
Hell, same is true for the 4 stroke dirtbike motor. Came, went, stayed away, went to enduro and street, then came back (to mx).
I love 4 stroke motors, it's just that in this case it isn't progress. It's regression disguised with bigger bores. Furthermore, they're being legislated into existence. Those 2 don't equal advancement.
Want advancement? Take the 2T, fit an airbox blower and fuel injection. Talk about volumetric efficiency. Now that's progress.
- Nov 22, 2000
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92.6% of all two-strokes smell like ass.
Every time I stage for a race, I get stuck stuck behind some Mulisha wannabe who insists on revving his shorty silenced, spooge spewing, 1970's technology bike to the moon whilst blowing a huge cloud of ass-stankin' smoke in my face.
Other than that I have no problem with them. :)
Every time I stage for a race, I get stuck stuck behind some Mulisha wannabe who insists on revving his shorty silenced, spooge spewing, 1970's technology bike to the moon whilst blowing a huge cloud of ass-stankin' smoke in my face.
Other than that I have no problem with them. :)
Drop the displacement on the 450's to 400, or raise the displacement of the 250's to 275 and see how many two-strokes are on the starting line. They legislated the four-strokes into being more powerful. 400cc wasn't enough(at least not at first), now 450 may be too much- especially considering the relative infancy of the new breed of four-strokes(they're going to get better).
The AMA is who made the four-stroke more dominant, in the 125 class anyway. If they let the pro's run 300cc two-strokes, no one would be on a four-stroke, unless they like the challenge of trying to win on an overweight, underpowered bike. :moon:
Personally, I still prefer the two-strokes(as if you couldn't tell). I don't need the "competitive edge" a four-stroke might provide, since I'm an APR(Amateur Practice Rider- yes even lower than a PPR). I like my bikes to be quiet, easy to start, easy to work on, cheap to repair, and reliable over the long-term. I just can't take the pressure of knowing that if, God forbid, my engine totally grenaded, it could cost me $3,000+ to repair. :ugg:
I can sympathize with motohead00. Every time I had to pick my four-stroke up or hot start it on the side of a hill, which was alot, I wanted to kill one of us(me or the bike). But since dead bikes aren't worth anything, and I can't afford to die, I traded it in for a Gas Gas EC300 and never looked back. :thumb:
Guess what? Two-strokes rule!
Guess what else? Four-strokes rule too!
Where's Rodney king when you need him? :joke:
The AMA is who made the four-stroke more dominant, in the 125 class anyway. If they let the pro's run 300cc two-strokes, no one would be on a four-stroke, unless they like the challenge of trying to win on an overweight, underpowered bike. :moon:
Personally, I still prefer the two-strokes(as if you couldn't tell). I don't need the "competitive edge" a four-stroke might provide, since I'm an APR(Amateur Practice Rider- yes even lower than a PPR). I like my bikes to be quiet, easy to start, easy to work on, cheap to repair, and reliable over the long-term. I just can't take the pressure of knowing that if, God forbid, my engine totally grenaded, it could cost me $3,000+ to repair. :ugg:
I can sympathize with motohead00. Every time I had to pick my four-stroke up or hot start it on the side of a hill, which was alot, I wanted to kill one of us(me or the bike). But since dead bikes aren't worth anything, and I can't afford to die, I traded it in for a Gas Gas EC300 and never looked back. :thumb:
Guess what? Two-strokes rule!
Guess what else? Four-strokes rule too!
Where's Rodney king when you need him? :joke:
Yep, I bet all the same (or similar) arguments were done to death in the late 60's/early 70's (I think? ... before I was born) about 2 strokes taking over from the then dominant 4 strokes.
...or was that fuel injection replacing carby's in cars...no wait, it was electronic ignition systems???
On the oil consumption issue, you may be right about the 4st "using" more oil on changes, but at least you can do something with that oil - clean it, recycle it etc. When it's been burnt with the fuel - goodbye forever.
In its current form (as used in dirtbikes) the 2st won't survive, but there are already other forms of 2st that are competitive emission-wise with 4 strokes - Orbital technology engines, the latest outboards etc. Let's not forget that it took a revolution in 4st dirtbike engine design and technology to even get us into this argument.
At the end of the day it depends on what is driving manufacturers and designers. Up until a few years ago the driver was to build the lightest dirtbike with the best power-to-weight ratio. Now you have to add "and best emission/fuel efficiency". In another couple of years you can tack on "with the lowest possible noise output".
Just my $0.02
Ando
...or was that fuel injection replacing carby's in cars...no wait, it was electronic ignition systems???
On the oil consumption issue, you may be right about the 4st "using" more oil on changes, but at least you can do something with that oil - clean it, recycle it etc. When it's been burnt with the fuel - goodbye forever.
In its current form (as used in dirtbikes) the 2st won't survive, but there are already other forms of 2st that are competitive emission-wise with 4 strokes - Orbital technology engines, the latest outboards etc. Let's not forget that it took a revolution in 4st dirtbike engine design and technology to even get us into this argument.
At the end of the day it depends on what is driving manufacturers and designers. Up until a few years ago the driver was to build the lightest dirtbike with the best power-to-weight ratio. Now you have to add "and best emission/fuel efficiency". In another couple of years you can tack on "with the lowest possible noise output".
Just my $0.02
Ando
... dont know how true this rumor is, but I heard that next years CR125 will be supplied "by special order only", I guess meaning you lay down the money and they build it, or build only so many (cant see a production line running off and on...).....Okiewan said:
MAN, I was just thinkin of selling my 01 250f, has probably 2 - 2.5 seasons on it... am I not going to be able to get anything for it?
I know I can keep it for an extra bike, but an 04 450f weighs roughly the same.....
I would really like to pick up a 03 250smoker for future vintage purposes and an 03-04 450f...
Okiewan said:
When i used to go to the MX GP's They used to stick the four bangers in as a 'filler' race so the fat, lazy old men could have a go.
Nothings changed today except younger fitter man race them.
they still sound like sh!t and embarrass the hell out of me when I take friends to a GP.
HiG4s
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- Mar 7, 2001
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As someone mentioned there are new 2-stroke technologies that will make them as Green as the 4-stroke race bike.. But sadly that will not make any difference as CARB has already passed the laws that will ban 2-strokes from all non closed course use and it is not based on any emissions testing it just bans 2-strokes and they will still be banned even if with new technology they meet 4-stroke emission levels..
HiG4s
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- Mar 7, 2001
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Well, I wasn't sure so did some research.. it seems the bill that was to ban 2-strokes outright did not get passed.. but they did try to just ban them.. The new CARB standards will force all 2-strokes to be DFI by 2006 to meet their standards. So just about the same as a ban when it comes to dirtbikes. ..
But for us outside Cali,, there is a little hope as the Federal EPA has at least listened to the AMA. see link.
http://www.ama-cycle.org/legisltn/releases/2002/g02029.asp
But for us outside Cali,, there is a little hope as the Federal EPA has at least listened to the AMA. see link.
http://www.ama-cycle.org/legisltn/releases/2002/g02029.asp
bclapham
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- Nov 5, 2001
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- #94
syko said:
Syko is my new hero! :worship:
syko, i am in the UK right now- i would like to buy you a beer for that post.
Marcus and i went riding today, there was a guy at the track that spent the whole day trying to start his 426!
Stevie, if you are out there, after seeing that he didnt need a bonk on the head! :thumb:
- Feb 9, 2000
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I've seen guys with 2-strokes struggle to start their bikes all day too, so what? That's a person problem not a 2st or 4st thing. If riding is 80% about the rider and NOT the bike who cares what people enjoy and have fun riding or prefer? I seem to remember Jeff Freddette having real disdain for the 4 strokes but I believe he is even switching to a smoker. I take it Bruce is the only 2 stroke rider in the world to have NEVER been passed or beaten by a 4st.
bclapham
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MrLuckey said:
of course i do, heck i only race in the vet beginner class, and 95% of the bikes i line up against are 450Fs, i am the only 2-stroke on my gate most weeks. i dont believe for a minute that my results would be better if i ran an "F", but i do accept i would get better starts, LOL
but until you can show me that a 250F has the same power as a 250 2-stroke, then i wont accept the "F" is the better engine. would you expect a middle weight boxer to step into the ring with a heavy weight? of course not.
- Jun 15, 2001
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Doesn't Freddette ride a Husky CR125? Or am I thinking of someone else? Whoever rides it was world champ last year. Not sure on this year.
Anyway, just remember that there will always be a niche market for 'less popular' but sellable 'things', and the 2 stroke will fall into this category. This is why Sean Hilbert and those guys at Cobra otherwise are working on an injected version. They have the potential to grasp the market that the big 5 are giving up.
I trust they are working hard on this, but I'm sure I would contract with Orbital to help design and manufacture the DFI motor. They've proven successful and reliable, with low, low emissions and a ton of power per cc.
Anyway, just remember that there will always be a niche market for 'less popular' but sellable 'things', and the 2 stroke will fall into this category. This is why Sean Hilbert and those guys at Cobra otherwise are working on an injected version. They have the potential to grasp the market that the big 5 are giving up.
I trust they are working hard on this, but I'm sure I would contract with Orbital to help design and manufacture the DFI motor. They've proven successful and reliable, with low, low emissions and a ton of power per cc.
I'm sure this arguement has already been used by many people but i'm gonna give it another go.
Four bangers sound like tractors..fact
four bangers go like tractors with 6 engines; takes a year to get going but when you have been going flat out for about half an hour it looks pretty powerful...fact.
Four bangers are piss easy to ride, great for pensioners....fact.
2 strokes are now a dieing breed...fact
2 strokes are a dieing breed because goverments decided that as a token gesture to appease the green brigade they would ban the 2 stroke engines which on a world scale make about as much difference to the state of our o-zone layer as a bunch of farting lizards....fact
idiots jumped on the band wagon and went out and bought four bangers because they either; can't ride MX bikes very well or got scared silly into thinking that they had to buy one becaue two strokes would completely dissapear off the planet before sun rise...fact.
the new crop of four banger users have put a big smile on the faces of green pleasers and goverments around the world because 'YOU DID WHAT THEY SAID'...fact.
the ama, FIM etc etc now are also appeasing green pleasers and governments by 'bigging up' the four bangers and making them the number 1 class in Pro MX...fact
the reason they did this was not because four stokes are better in ANY department when it comes to the 2 Vs 4 battle. They did it because they HAD to, there hands were forced and sadly they were forced to ditch what they truly know is the superior racing machine in its rawest from and give way to fat mans bikes for the thin man.
My point is, that no matter what you may think about four strokes or two stokes, four strokes haven't been chosen by anybody because they thought they were better bikes. right from the top (government) all the way down to the bottom (the man on the street) chose four strokes simply because they were forced to.
It's simple, be individual and be honest with yourself, don't bow down to what legislation tells you, especially when you know they are in the wrong.
2 strokes have always kicked ass and as far as I am concerned, always will.
Four bangers sound like tractors..fact
four bangers go like tractors with 6 engines; takes a year to get going but when you have been going flat out for about half an hour it looks pretty powerful...fact.
Four bangers are piss easy to ride, great for pensioners....fact.
2 strokes are now a dieing breed...fact
2 strokes are a dieing breed because goverments decided that as a token gesture to appease the green brigade they would ban the 2 stroke engines which on a world scale make about as much difference to the state of our o-zone layer as a bunch of farting lizards....fact
idiots jumped on the band wagon and went out and bought four bangers because they either; can't ride MX bikes very well or got scared silly into thinking that they had to buy one becaue two strokes would completely dissapear off the planet before sun rise...fact.
the new crop of four banger users have put a big smile on the faces of green pleasers and goverments around the world because 'YOU DID WHAT THEY SAID'...fact.
the ama, FIM etc etc now are also appeasing green pleasers and governments by 'bigging up' the four bangers and making them the number 1 class in Pro MX...fact
the reason they did this was not because four stokes are better in ANY department when it comes to the 2 Vs 4 battle. They did it because they HAD to, there hands were forced and sadly they were forced to ditch what they truly know is the superior racing machine in its rawest from and give way to fat mans bikes for the thin man.
My point is, that no matter what you may think about four strokes or two stokes, four strokes haven't been chosen by anybody because they thought they were better bikes. right from the top (government) all the way down to the bottom (the man on the street) chose four strokes simply because they were forced to.
It's simple, be individual and be honest with yourself, don't bow down to what legislation tells you, especially when you know they are in the wrong.
2 strokes have always kicked ass and as far as I am concerned, always will.
Now theres a good way to make friends and influance people, lol.
Your facts are, let's say, flawed at best. There isn't a single person out there that bought a four stroke because two strokes aren't available. They "had" to? Really? How many do you think bought them to save the environment? How many do you think bought tme just cuase they like 'em? lol.
Dude, that's one silly rant... fact.
Your facts are, let's say, flawed at best. There isn't a single person out there that bought a four stroke because two strokes aren't available. They "had" to? Really? How many do you think bought them to save the environment? How many do you think bought tme just cuase they like 'em? lol.
Dude, that's one silly rant... fact.
