Bolt On Horsepower or Snake Oil?

[Chili]

THE THING WORKS.if you are a rider who dosnt know a whole lot about jetting, then this thing will work for you.not everybody wants to spend a whole day testing new jetting.

Which was exactly the point I was trying to make that brought this recent revival to this thread. You can spend $5 on a jet and some time or $200 for an iCat and get somewhat the same results.

most of us just want to ride and have good perf. from our bikes.with that said,all the shade tree mechanics out there should try one or just shut the hell up.

So I should shell $200 out for something that has been shown to provide no HP merit on a properly tuned bike? Or I should shut up and let other users be misled about the product? So far you and I have provided exactly the same amount of scientific data to this arguement: I say it doesn't do squat, you say it does. It can go on forever Does Not! Does Too! :bang:

The entire point of this discussion was if this device offered benefit to a properly tune bike or simply masked poor tuning, so far based on what's been provided in this thread I'm leaning towards the latter.

 

[ncmountainman]

i don't change my jetting but 2-3 times a year,maybe i should do it more but i find thats all i need. so if this thing will help when maybe i'm too rich ? then if you stay on the rich end of things you are always gonna be jetted correctly,i'm just wondering (if this is really how it works) how its gonna react with a lean condition maybe make it even leaner? that might be a problem. well its all speculation t'ill i get it on there and it is coming so no turning back now!!! open your mind a little just over a 100 years ago electricity was just being harnessed for the masses,technology changes daily! the fact that its a crossover product(from forklifts) tells me that we weren't really the target demo anyhow,so if they were out to decieve us you would think they'd of done it in a grander style? relax a little chili i'm the one takin' the risk just kick back and learn from my mistake/sucess! :cool:

 

[Rich Rohrich]

i don't change my jetting but 2-3 times a year,maybe i should do it more but i find thats all i need. so if this thing will help when maybe i'm too rich ? then if you stay on the rich end of things you are always gonna be jetted correctly,i'm just wondering (if this is really how it works) how its gonna react with a lean condition maybe make it even leaner?

:bang: :bang: :bang:

Did you sleep through chemistry in high school???????

A device that extends the duration of the spark can't change the jetting PERIOD.

Combustion is just a chemical reaction and the spark just causes a small portion of the trapped mixture to react. An improved ignition source can conceivably improve the chances of the reaction starting and limit the number of misfires (every cycle doesn't fire properly even in the best engines) when the jetting is off, but it can NOT change jetting. Whether or not the i-cat accomplishes the goal of fewer mis-fires is for you to decide.

Dirt bikers should really consider reading something other than the pointless drivel oozing from dirt bike magazines. They print marketing spooge NOT TECHNICAL ARTCLES. Recognizing the difference will save you a lot of grief (and probably a bunch of $$$) in the long run. ;)

BTW, there is no Santa Claus either.

 

[Chili]

Obviously the typed communication leaves a little to be desired and my true nature or message is being misinterpreted by you. I am relaxed and hope the product delivers everything you desire from it. My mind is always open, however I tend to research the heck out of things before throwing $$$ at something that may or may not deliver. As for deceiving us in a grander style, I would think that promising a 5hp or roughly 10% power increase on a 250 which the website AND the packaging of the item delivered to Marcus to test did at one time would suggest that was exactly the goal.

The bottom line on all this for me is until I can get some relevant data from a tuner of merit other than "trust me it works" for me it will be nothing more than the Placebo effect. I've seen this for years in my side business of Golf Club Repairs and Custom Club making. Supply the customer with a new club and they rave about how they don't know how they lived without this item they are hitting it X yards farther or making every 4 footer. Play golf with them 6 weeks later and they are shopping for a replacement for that piece of crap club that doesn't work anymore :laugh:

 

[Chili]

BTW, there is no Santa Claus either.

There goes an afternoon of research, thanks Rich :laugh:

 

[marcusgunby]

Right the reason for the lack of 'seat of the pants feel' on the track was no tracks were open, we tested it in the middle of winter, if it made more power i would have gone tot he trouble of further testing.I could go round the streets, but the local cops dont seem to like that much, and as i dont ride on the streets it didnt seem worthwhile. The dyno doesnt prove everything but it does prove if a bike produces more power than before. If you found the ICAT does cost $8 to make wouldnt you be miffed??? No one should be marketing it as producing more power is all i ask, if your happy to spend $200 to sort your jetting thats fine by me but lets not make out its value for money.

 

[Studboy]

Jaybird is right... X Ammt. of a specific fuel requires X Ammt. of O2 to burn properly (Stoch. ratio)...adding more spark does not create more oxygen. Maybe the I-Cat spark works better in an overly rich environment than a std. but you still are going to have more power if jetted properly!

I would like to try one myself if I had the opportunity. I don't suffer too much from buyer's remorse...I'll tell you right now that my $300 VHM head is no better performance than the stocker so it sits on the shelf....and my SST pipe sucks compared to the stocker so it hangs from the wall. :) :) :)

 

[Studboy]

BTW, there is no Santa Claus either.

:laugh:

 

[muddy226]

ncmountain just fit it and ride, I have one on my bike and its staying on because I think it works, and thats good enough for me, although I must admit I might have baulked at paying the full price for it, but thats just 'cos I'm poor. Obviously it doesn't cost much to make, but so what ? I never thought profit would be disapproved of on this site :laugh: The only way to find out whether or not it works for you is to try it on the track, unless you prefer to ride a dyno ;) I will be very interested in your report back, so long as you are prepared to admit wasting your money if that is the case ( which I doubt it will be ). Good luck

 

[steve125]

Hey!! thats fine if the I-Cat users don't care if it shows an increase on the dyno or not. We dont ride dynos right? LOL So then, what they may end up with is better throttle response? and easier starting? For 200 dollars?, big deal and what a rip at those prices.

I haven't tried an I-Cat. But I have spent alot hrs. on a dyno. Its really an amazing tool and very sensitive I might add.
It can show a difference between 1main jet size, 1 needle clip position, just 2mm in a reed opening, 2mm in pipe length, 1 mm in timing change, a change in fuels tested, the list goes on and on.

So when the I-Cat shows no change on the dyno when just about everything else does, good or bad, see why Im not buying one?

I don't need any more throttle response, my bikes are jetted crisp enough.

 

[donald]

I just put an icat on my crf 450. It made an awesome difference to the throttle response and the bikes pulling power.
Just to be fair i put it on halfway thru a race day and my starts were much improved as was the bikes torque. Corners i had to do in second i could now easily do in third.

I cant understand how negative you guys can be on a product you haven't even ridden with!
Hotter plug, better jetting, blah blah blah. Leave your head in the sand guys, those who have used an icat know the results.

 

[ncmountainman]

santa

what ??? no santa??? man you're kiddin' right! well i ride harescrmbles occasionally and anything that will help me get started after a dismount is worth it to me! shoot all i have to do is stay home one fri. night and i can save that much money! working on my bike is fun for me(so was santa but he's gone now,you killed him) and my wife understands that if buying parts means me drinkin' less beer then shes all for it!!! hey if it works it does, if not i need sumthin' to start my collection of parts that don't work! and yes they have a satisfaction guaruntee with 20% restock and yes that still might be overpaying for a $8 part but at least I will know whether it works or not!!! and dyno shmyno ,the dyno does not know how many kicks it takes to fire up? i'll be the first to admit if the thing sucks just so other hard headed folk such as myself can take it into consideration,but other than no hp increase all the people that use it love it! could be they are all disillusioned by forkin' over that extravagant amount of money,come on people at least let me think santa still exists! :ohmy:

 

[Jaybird]

Fresh top ends with properly gapped rings, in conjunction with properly jetted carburation circuits and proper intake/exhaust valving, makes for an easy starting engine...with stock sparkage.

If a bike is hard to start, the I-cat is not the answer...I don't care how much swill you won't drink as a result of throwing your money down a different pit.
What was it they said about a fool and his money....?

Rich, Santa is alive and well and you are a big poo poo head for implying otherwise! We that know he is real understand...and we don't care WHAT you nay-sayers have to say about it. Get with the program man!

 

[Rich Rohrich]

Rich, Santa is alive and well and you are a big poo poo head for implying otherwise! We that know he is real

Got any hard data to back that up Mister? ;)

 

[steve125]

Got any hard data to back that up Mister? ;)

Only that the I-Cat elves told him so???


I believe in the I-Cat elf', don't you Rich?
Their elfin magic, makes for a strong spark :rotfl:

 

[kuritaro9]

santa

if noone saw him on a dyno result, he dosn't exist.there is no santa,never was."at least on a dyno" :laugh: all i can say is IT WORKS IT WORKS AND IT WORKS.did i mention it works? all of you dyno lovin' bucketheads just will not believe even if u try one.i've dealt with your type before.we get all the military "pro riders"here in japan and they just know everything there is to know.whatever,dont use one...but i do, and im very happy with.at the very least,i dont have to change jets as much to get good performance.that alone is woth it to me.have you ever tried to get the carb out of a 01 cr????its not fun.
a dyno didnt have to tell me that sex without a condom feels better than with one. i just tried it and found out for myself...no dyno graphs to prove me wrong. :yeehaw:
so, go ahead and spend money on all the other things that we riders buy to get better throttle response pipe$180 silencer$95 reeds$50 to $150 or just drop 2 bills or less on ****.anyway,all of you naysayers are making my brain hurt :bang: btw,i have quite a bit of experience working with f-16 motors and it comes to mind that it too uses similer tech. to help start the engine.hmmmmm i guess the govt. could be wrong..... :nener:

 

[Jaybird]

All I want for Christmas!

 

[steve125]

if noone saw him on a dyno result, he dosn't exist.there is no santa,never was."at least on a dyno" :laugh: all i can say is IT WORKS IT WORKS AND IT WORKS.did i mention it works? all of you dyno lovin' bucketheads just will not believe even if u try one.i've dealt with your type before.we get all the military "pro riders"here in japan and they just know everything there is to know.whatever,dont use one...but i do, and im very happy with.at the very least,i dont have to change jets as much to get good performance.that alone is woth it to me.have you ever tried to get the carb out of a 01 cr????its not fun.
a dyno didnt have to tell me that sex without a condom feels better than with one. i just tried it and found out for myself...no dyno graphs to prove me wrong. :yeehaw:
so, go ahead and spend money on all the other things that we riders buy to get better throttle response pipe$180 silencer$95 reeds$50 to $150 or just drop 2 bills or less on ****.anyway,all of you naysayers are making my brain hurt :bang: btw,i have quite a bit of experience working with f-16 motors and it comes to mind that it too uses similer tech. to help start the engine.hmmmmm i guess the govt. could be wrong..... :nener:

Dude you crack me up! It WORKS It WORKS is all you got. How many times have I heard that rant.

You say it has sooo much response, so much power, it will pull a gear higher out of a turn. All this new found power, and not one bit of it can be measured.?? Only on your Butt Dyno??it tells your head it WORKS It WORKS LOL

Yer Butt Dyno is broken, thats your wallet talkin. :rotfl:

 

[ncmountainman]

so there is a santa? and rich is just the grinch? o.k. i can live with it!! are those dyno tests against time because what i'm gathering here is that the power just comes on a little faster not more of it? and for some dang reason no matter what, my bike has been tricky to start since day one ,valves are right in the middle of spec and the cams are lined up properly,and i'm pretty sure the rings are o.k.(no blowby any way)i've always kept a tan plug,so jetting is about as close as it needs to be,even tried running a little lean to see if it would start easier,nope. the squirt has been checked and went down to a 40 leak jet,starting cold is no problem if you catch it the first time,its when its hot and after you wreck its a little tempermental.some people say the wr exhaust cam makes for a harder start? but i like the way it runs now. changing the exhaust cam might be the next step if this doesn't improve anything. any suggestions on what cams? should i go regrind or hotcams stage 1, or is there any other company that offers a more HS oriented grind?(bottom friendly) :worship:

 

[fatherturtle]

um F-16 motors. HMM same technology? I also was a f-16 engine mech on the GE 110. They use a exciter box no I- cat. Oh and by the way I lived at the north pole 99705 and I never met the old man. :nener:

 

[marcusgunby]

We heard the same about the roost boost and how many of them are still for sale? want to bet the ICAT will be around in mx in 10 years?How many bolt ons have we hard do the same then a few months later the exact same owners are all saying it was a waste? the power now comes to mind-on a 125 i have found little to no gain and they loose power on the overrev.

 

[muddy226]

Well, I have no particular axe to grind but I'm still waiting for just one person who has used an i-cat on the track to come on here and say it does not work.I find it quite extraordinary that the clever people get quite so excited about saying it doesn't work when they havn't even tried it. I am not lucky enough to have easy access to a dyno but if I did I am sure that I would spend many a happy hour playing about with jetting and other things. However, I would not then pour scorn on anyone who found something they liked and were bold enough to say so without fully replicated scientific trials backup, and to do so is just techno-snobbery. However, well judged and honest opinions gained with the help of dyno's from technical people will always be welcome, as will opinions from users based on their feelings and experiences alone. Still, I suppose it keeps us all talking and amused. :ride:

 

[elf]

Only that the I-Cat elves told him so???


I believe in the I-Cat elf', don't you Rich?
Their elfin magic, makes for a strong spark :rotfl:

Hey, if anyone knows about elfin magic its me. And I dont bellieve in the I-cat elf !! :laugh:

 

[Chili]

Replied to the wrong thread :laugh:

 

[Jaybird]

Muddy, I'm not sure you can consider someone shouting the praises of a product "bold". Most folks will tout a product for no more reason than becasue they bought it and have it...therefore it has to be the berries. (pre-mix and chain lube come to mind)

When some claim they have experienced a great benifit by using a product, many want to know more information than a simple anecdote before they too purchase the product. Especially when mucho Dinero is involved.
To ask for some more technical evidence of a products worth is not "techo-snobbery" at all...I find it "smart". Some mfg's depend soley on the word of mouth factor to help boost their sales. If they have no scientific data to back up their claims, anecdotal evidence is ALL they have...besides maybe some good marketing skills.

It works the other way as well...
Many will have problems with a product and claim is complete junk and folks should steer clear of it. Even though they may have another problem that makes them "think" it is the products fault, they swear that the product is junk.
Chains and sprockets come to mind...(imagine that)
Often times a rider will see their sprocket with worn teeth soon after mounting it. Many will say the sprocket is junk without giving a second thought on maybe their maintenance was bad. Maybe they mounted the thing up on a worn chain....to them, the chain is the bomb because it has lasted so damn long! But in reality, they probably have a chain that is stretched past limits and it will eat up their sprocket. Poor sprocket got blamed no matter what the reason was.
Another rider may have the adjustment so tight that every time he jumps, it eats a little more of his sprockets and bearings up...but again, it's those damn cheap aluminum sprockets that can't handle the brute strength their bored KDX delivers.
Scientific data can easily prove these folks have other problems, rather than a cheap sprocket.

Myself, I'd much rather trust the results of a scientific test, than the opinion of a rider. Especially a good rider. Many folks are such good riders that they will be able to fly on just about any motor, tuned well or not. But even these phenom riders don't have super natural abilities that allows them to feel changes in performance that a dyno may not read. They still have that "mental" thing going on.
I guess what I'm saying is, in the real world there is no substitute for scientific confirmation of a product. If the science just isn't there...the product is either doing a great job at providing the "plecebo" effect, or the manufacturers are marketing genius'. More power to them if they can pull it off...but for my money, I want something more than "It simply works...trust it".