"O" ring or non "O" ring chain?

Carlo: you know where to find me, most saturday mornings, Glen Helen back track at the races.

get some numbers on that bike, come down on saturday and race- then you can talk all the crapolla you want! :thumb: :eek: :)

Bodge said:

MikeT will i need a spacer if i run an xring chain(primary drive)? Its a 97yz125. Also where did you find that washer?

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If you run any type of ring chain on a YZ125 you will need a spacer. I actually found my spacer (washer) in a parts bin where I used to work. I held it in a vise and kept on reaming out the center until it fit.

I have another idea that might be a little easier. Go down to the Yamaha shop and buy 2 or 3 of the lock washers that go on the outside of the sprocket to keep the nut from loosening. Put at least two of them on behind the front sprocket and see if the chain rubs. If it rubs, then just use three. They are much thinner than the washer I used. To get an idea of how thick the one I used was, the grooved front sprocket shaft poked out just enough to engage the lock washer teeth. As long as the teeth are engaged, and you properly torque the locking nut, you will be fine. Like I said, I never had a problem with mine and it's still working fine for the new owner.

All,
Anybody have an opinion on the DID ert chain. I believe it's a non oring. Is good, bad...or what?

if you are looking for an excuse to get away from your wife or girlfriend, this one's a no brainer! Get the non o-ring chain, and a bunch of chain lube. Take it off the bike after every ride and soak/wash it in some potentially dangerous solvent. If you are using the kind of chain lube that makes a mess, don't forget to clean all the gunk off of the back wheel, spokes, swingarm, and basically anywhere else that's in the line of fire of the chain.

Personally, I went with the shaft drive conversion kit I bought off e-bay for $17.68. It came from a smoke free garage, and bolted right on to my CR250!

I've tried both, the X-ring lasted slightly longer than a standard one. I can't get a chain to last longer than a year so the extra $$ wasn't worth it. I race a few sand tracks and usually all the other tracks are goopy at the begining, and I like the pressure washer!

Here is my .02...I've taken Jaybird's advice, and thrown away the O-Ring chain. My chain maintenance has been this: Lube before every ride, lube at lunchtime or break time. Go home and hit chain with simple green and spray off, then lube immediately. And, keep adjusted of course. I have only taken the chain off the bike once, and that was because of a bigtime mud bath, and I only used dish soap to clean it.

I ride on average 3-4 times per month, about half of those are at the sand dunes.
I ran the stock chain, and then I bought a RK Standard (~$20) chain about a year and a half ago, which I am still running. It is due for replacement now, but my sprockets are still good for another chain. If you replace your chain before it is completely worn out, you will get way more life out of your sprockets.

Oh, and Jaybird's lube doesn't make a mess. It washes right off with simple green and a garden hose. And, I've found that it protects well. It seems to kind of "fill in" to the wear spots on the metal.

So, the moral of the story is that my bike is going to make it 2+ years on the stock sprockets with $40 invested in chains, and $14
invested in lube. (Not $327.)

I'm happy. :thumb:

After two and a half seasons on my RM, my stock chain just gave up. (and I was running 12/50 gearing on the thing). All I used was WD40, and if I was in a really good mood, some Honda dry-type chain lube. The thing was fine for a while, and just up and went within two rides.

Anyway.

I'm running one of those high-end Moose X-ring chains now. I run basically the same thing on my streetbike, because I **HATE** chain lube. I like just blasting it down with WD40, and wiping it clean.

hey man i know what you mean about chain lube, I also hate having to deal with all that mess, then after awhile it starts to collect dirt, how well does that x-ring chain work?
:yeehaw:

Just a thought for anyone thinking about getting an X-Ring chain, some bikes may need a washer or second lockwasher to fit bhind the front sprocket because the X-Ring chains are thicker that other chains, and they rub against the side case. I just put an X-Ring chain on my 01 Yz 125, spun the wheel a few times, then took off the front sprocket and saw that I needed a washer. I got a semi thin washer and drilled out the center hole until it fit over the shaft behind the front sprocket. Another solution for this is going to your local store and buying a lock washer or two and using them. Just make sure the lockwasher in back of the main nut that hlds the front sprocket on grabs on the splines when you tighten the nut. Later :thumb:

About how thick is the case right by the front sprocket?

I like o-ring better because they stretch less. I try to do the maintenence as I should, but don't always get around to it. My bike has 3 seasons on it with plenty of riding time and the original sprockets are just starting to show wear. I'm putting the R1 renthal that I bought 2 years ago (non O) with a set of new sprockets. I expect to be buying another regina 0-ring at my local dealer.

I really like the honda dry lube. The chain doesn't collect all the dirt as with the tarry brown stuff

From what I have heard in the past O ring chains are best if you have any kind of 250 or bigger. They are too heavy for running competively on a 125.

I'll buy that CR,

Actually it's a little known fact that there are no proven studdies that EITHER outperformes the OTHER under ANY conditions WHATSOEVER. Whatever any of us belive and say is all heresay of cousre. (pssst, just buy the cheapest you can find!!!)

Now when you say 250 you aren't referring to the 250F now right? Awww don't even answer. I'll just assume you meant a real 250 :laugh:

Joe Chief

Chief,
Where did you get this little pearl of information at?
Actually there are plenty of tests showing performance of ring chains vs standard chains.
Look on the box of any RK ring chain and you will see a graph showing testing data comparing the chains.

There is a bit of a problem with this data though. What IS little known, is that these tests are run without any extra lubrication. So they are really a bit misleading as to how long a ring chain will last compared to the standard.
The ring chain has lubricant provided, so it only makes sense that running a test against a standard chain with no lube will lead you to believe that the ring chain is far superior to the standard.
To the less than learned, this is very convincing data. It is also the data used to give you these "life wear ratings", which are just as bogus.

We need to first realise that the chains aren't different animals except for dimensions. So if you took the standard chain and injected some grease between rings, you would have the very same chain and the test results would be exactly the same.

On a test bench, as these tests are run, if the standard chain is given periodic lubrication thoughout the test, it will last longer than the ring chain.
There is a point in time when the ring chain will have consumed it's lubricant leaving nothing but soap base in between the rings. At this point the ring chain will make a sharp rise up the graph to it's death.
The standard chain that is being lubricated periodically will in fact last longer because it will not see a period throughout the test when it does not have lubricant protecting the friction surfaces.

I have run these tests and know this to be true.
The problem is that we don't run our chains on a test bench.
We run them where there are many more variables such as mud, water, and sand being entered into the mix.
These variable in themselves neccesitate the need for us to run both types of chains, depending on conditions.

There is a problem running a standard chain in deep, thick, mud. It is very hard to keep from getting the friction surfaces from getting contaminated from abrasives.
Also, running a ring chain all the time can pose problems. Sand is a ring chains worst enemy. Just a grain or two of sand can kill rings, and allow sand, dirt, and water inside the protected area. This will kill the chain and your sprockets fast.

The proper lubricant has lots do do with how long your equipment will last as well.
Thick gooey lubes will absolutely attract contamination and create a grinding paste that will kill both types of chains.
Also, lubricants such as motor or gear oil, can't provide proper protection for very long without needing to be reapplied.

Tensile ratings are more marketing smoke-and-mirrors, but I'll save that for another thread.

I could ramble on ad infinitum about this subject, and you are already bored, but I will say that there absolutely is testing data that shows the difference in longevity of ring chains vs standard. Just don't trust what the mfg shows you unless you realise what you are seeing.

I've added a couple of graphs. One is similar to the one on an RK box, but the one I show is closer to what happens in reality on the bench without lube.
The other is what the graph looks like with a good test providing lube, as it should be.

I guess it's fess up time.

I used my..... IMAGINATION..... :joke:

Jay, as usual, I truly appreciate your in depth and interesting reply. I can now say that a well taken care of no-ring can outlast a comparable o-ring. It just needs the maintenence.

Couln't they post a graph for 'LAZY SLOBS' on the box?
I know it would be more practical for me anyway.......

I'm really looking forward to seeing how the R1 works for me. I refuse to put the TAR on it. Hopefully the local shop will have some of the dry lube on hand. They keep selling out. I would rather run it dry than put the goop on. Plus WD won't hurt the chain.

Perhaps I am committing myself to an experiment. I will definetely post the results, my impressions, when I have some hours on it.

Joe Chief

Keep in mind that those little graphs up there don't take into account riding through water, sand, mud etc which is all free to enter your non ring chain.

I see Eddie didn't read my whole ramble. :)
(heck, I don't blame ya)

Chief, if you'd just PM me I'd tell you where you can find an unlimited supply of the best motorcycle chain lube on the market. :)
You don't think I just ramble on about this crap for nothing do ya? (lol)

Jaybird said:

You don't think I just ramble on about this crap for nothing do ya?

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Well,....now that you bring it up.......

:debil: :moon: :laugh:

JayB, please run both a standard and O ring chain at the same time and give us some real numbers. Thanks.....

Slips,
There are a couple of problems with that.
One, the numbers you will see from the test bench will not follow what you will see in the real world unless you do all you can to increase the longevity of either chain. Even then, extenuating circumstances can also vary the numbers.
Second, trying to duplicate the conditions on two different chains is very hard to do.
It ends up being nothing more than a personal experience report. And again it boils down to what sort of care was given.
The first person that varies from the procedure that was used for the test will holler very loudly that the numbers are screwed up and bogus.
Not a good thing for both tester and manufacturer.

Take a good look at the second graph I provided. If you see where the two lines intersect you will notice that it is just prior to them both being elongated approx. 1% over new length. You will see very similar wear on both chains up to that point. A ring chain will grow very, very fast after that, as it is now being starved for lubrication. The standard will grow slower from that point because it is still being lubed. Pay no attention to the hours number on the graph, as you probably won't see those sort of numbers in the field. But do look at the percentages of elongation. If you change out either/or, at a point no more than 1.5% of elongation, your sprockets will be healthy and happy.
A ring chain should be changed out as soon as you have measured and detected a 1% growth, since it won't be but a short time and it will have grown to a point it can damage the sprocket teeth, and waiting a wee bit too long can be a problem.
You can wait untill you measure a 1.5% growth on the standard, since it grows at a slower pace from that point and you still have a little time left (with continued good care).

It's like anything else...you can be told from a learned tuner that running 32:1 will provide your 2banger with adequate lubrication and your parts will last....but some will choose to run Dr. Zoogs boat oil with gas from grandpa's bulk farm tank, and they may or may not see the results the tuner described.

Also take things told to you by others, including myself, with a grain of salt. Some folks have their heart in the right place, but have less than a clue as to what is really going on. Case in point, I know a guy who owns a bike shop....great service...great help...and absolutely no clue as to how to adjust or maintain chain drives properly.

Well Spoken, Jay. It seems you are getting a little old and soft though. :)

LOL, Jay I was kidding. I thought u would get what I meant. That is, running an O-ring and a non O-ring chain on the same bike at the same time. It was a joke bro. However, you smart guys dont understand us idjits well. :)

Peace and thanks for the great advise on chains. I had been wondering the same things and your thoughtful insight answered all my questions, even if I was er... pulling your chain! LOL

Jaybird said:

Chief, if you'd just PM me I'd tell you where you can find an unlimited supply of the best motorcycle chain lube on the market. :)
You don't think I just ramble on about this crap for nothing do ya? (lol)

Click to expand...

Use this and you'll never go back to "brand name" chain lubes. It's cheaper, lasts longer, cleaner and works FAR better than any off the shelf chain lube I've ever come in contact with.....and no, I'm not affiliated, sponsored or anything else by Jay, just hooked on a great product.