Poll: How long will it take?

SpeedyManiac · Dec 9, 2005

I highly doubt two-strokes will die. Maybe from MX, but tight woods is still dominated by smokers. For the comment about air quality, my two stroke doesn't smoke AT ALL. It's all in getting the jetting and mixture right.

I'm not particularly biased either way for bikes, I used to ride a thumper but switched to a two-stroke for racing purposes. Once I graduate I'm sure I'll own both types of bikes (thumpers for street and maybe motocross, two-stroke for woods racing and maybe mx). My biggest pet peeve is the noise factor. My riding buddy rides a stock CRF450R and that think is still LOUD. My bike isn't the quietest bike out there (my mom's XR200R takes the prize on that one) but unless I'm screaming it, the sound doesn't travel very far. My parents like four-strokes but have come to admit that they'll take the sound of a two-stroke (which they despise, especially 80s) over uncorked thumpers.

JPIVEY · Dec 9, 2005

I say never, sells will continue to drop off, they'll flop around like a dying fish and then come back, clean burning with the power characteristics of the 200 & 380 and in a few years the conversation will reverse and we'll wonder how long the 4s will last

mike black · Dec 9, 2005

brit yz125 said:
I think the poll should be- how long before everybody gets pi**ed off with the cost of replacing a blown 4 stroke motor? My heart says 2 strokes forever, but they will probably be completely phased out over the next couple of years. I suppose it's hard trying to get good money for one now?

:rotfl: i think you need to talk to someone that looks after their bike!!! yes there is more to do with the 4 strokes but if you spend 1 or 2 /hours every 20 to 30 hours checking the valves you are not going to have a problem. the only problem is the :coocoo: dumb :moon: that ride their bikes for 200/h not looking or checking anything on the bike. you know these pepole, they're the ones that never tighten their chain or clean the air filter. now if your a guy that likes to ride but does not know how to work on a bike dont get a 4. but if you have half a brain and know how to do your own work you dont have anything to worry about
mike

brit yz125 · Dec 10, 2005

mike black said:
:rotfl: i think you need to talk to someone that looks after their bike!!! yes there is more to do with the 4 strokes but if you spend 1 or 2 /hours every 20 to 30 hours checking the valves you are not going to have a problem. the only problem is the :coocoo: dumb :moon: that ride their bikes for 200/h not looking or checking anything on the bike. you know these pepole, they're the ones that never tighten their chain or clean the air filter. now if your a guy that likes to ride but does not know how to work on a bike dont get a 4. but if you have half a brain and know how to do your own work you dont have anything to worry about
mike

Even bikes in top condition can let go at some point, and on a 4 stroke its a lot more expensive than on a 2 stroke, which isn't good for people who have a tight budget for racing. I didn't mean all 4 strokes will blow up! :ride: :yikes:

mike black · Dec 10, 2005

I hade a two stroke motor blow up on me the connecting rod went (2000 rm 125) after the shop was all done i was out close to 1600. I dont know how much the 4's cost but i did here one guy say that he had his head rebilt for 1000 than a bottem end would cost 800. so from what i gather is the 4's are more work (I'v had both 2 and 4's) but to rebild are not going to hit your pocket to much harder that a 2 stroke when you get in to rebilding them. I really think that the pepole that dont want to take care are spreding rumours way to fast!
mike

2-Strokes 4-ever · Dec 11, 2005

mike black said:
I hade a two stroke motor blow up on me the connecting rod went (2000 rm 125) after the shop was all done i was out close to 1600. I dont know how much the 4's cost but i did here one guy say that he had his head rebilt for 1000 than a bottem end would cost 800. so from what i gather is the 4's are more work (I'v had both 2 and 4's) but to rebild are not going to hit your pocket to much harder that a 2 stroke when you get in to rebilding them. I really think that the pepole that dont want to take care are spreding rumours way to fast!
mike

I'm sure there's someone here that can fill us in on costs of a catastrophic 4-stroke failure. Money wise......I don't know, but........ a intake/exhaust valve related failure can do damage to head, valves, cams, piston, rod, cylinder, cam chain........ I heard somewhere (only HEARD) that these parts/labor costs can easily be $3000-4000.

rodH · Dec 11, 2005

well, isn't a top end on a 2 stroke about $150, while a 4 stroke is $600-900?

I have heard it said that it is as easy to rebuild a top end on a 2 stroke as change a plug on a 4. That being said, for most of us to rebuild a top-end on a 2 stroke is well under $100. That is only one of many examples.

DanmacK · Dec 11, 2005

I would like them to stay forever , but it looks like they may get phased out in a few yrs.
I never really liked them till I got my son a KTM SX 65 ...what great bike ! If I ever get enough doe , I would like to get a KTM 3-Stroke ...lol..for myself . :aj:

taderhead · Dec 12, 2005

A 2 stroke top end can be done (just rings and top end gasket kit wrist pin and bearing) for well under 100 bucks and thats good for the average person from winter to winter thats how i do mine.....then even if you do have to replace the piston its still under 200 bucks and easliy managable for someone with little skill and a top end on a 4 stroke is like rocket science or somthing cam chains and all that junk. Much more time consuming too even if u can rebuil a 4 banger ureself no way u could get one buttoned up in under 2 hours as with the 2.

XRpredator · Dec 13, 2005

I have a headache after reading that diatribe . . .

Now excuse me while I go practice some rocket science on my KTM 525

hellbertos · Dec 13, 2005

4T failure can be serious ca$h

One of my riding buddies yzf went south to the tune of close to 3Gs. What I found interesting was he bought it used off a guy who seemed to maintain it well. My buddy, who is no stranger to 4Ts as he comes from a sport bike background, adjusted the valves religiously as well as kept up on general maintenance. The report was that the thing seemed to be running fine then... bang... valve and piston meet... and he is looking at close to the used purchase price to put it back together. Its been sitting for months now while he saves the cash to get it going again.

This isn't to say 2Ts aren't expensive to fix when they fail, but, dang... 3 grand is pretty damn steep. I dunno but it seems like you could get a whole new 2T motor for less...

YZ165 · Dec 16, 2005

taderhead said:
even if u can rebuil a 4 banger ureself no way u could get one buttoned up in under 2 hours as with the 2.

You might not be able to, but there are those uf us who can. Now leave me alone, one of my rockets is acting up..... ;)

cnielse5 · Dec 22, 2005

I wanted this poll to focus more on how long it would take before 2-strokes are phased out. right now kawasaki no longer imports the kx 125 to the us. I didn't want the thread to turn into a anti 2 stroke or anti 4 stroke thread. As for cost of 4 strokes costing more I believe that most of the horror stories are slightly exagerated. besides parts that cost more are going to make the manufacturer more money. so the cost of repairs debate on 4 strokes is only valid for the guy that buys a used bike and needs to buy parts to repair it. The only money that a manufactures make on used bikes is the parts that you put on them. so the manufacturer could care less how many used 2strokes are out there.

I am more interested in talking about how the demand for NEW 2strokes will kept the 2strokes alive. Or is everybody that buys a NEW bike (I am talking one of the dealership floor) buying a 4 stroke?

2-Strokes 4-ever · Dec 22, 2005

cnielse5 said:
Or is everybody that buys a NEW bike (I am talking one of the dealership floor) buying a 4 stroke?

Been a while since I was involved in MX. As for woods, here in tight, rocky, Missouri..........seems that sales are about 50/50 (even with the AA guys.)

Henka · Dec 26, 2005

The 2 stroke!! CR500AF was tested by Transworld Mx and found to be up to 4 seconds per lap faster than a fully modified!! CRF450 on the motocross track, they called this revelation "The Truth"!

XRpredator · Dec 28, 2005

gettin' closer to the end:

crazytrails · Dec 28, 2005

i will admit, 4-strokes are very easy to ride.. but alot of people can't afford to rebuild them.. i do all of my own work, but the parts alone are insane.. if the would let the manufacturers do what they want to the 2-strokes for example the weight..if they could lower the weight, 2- strokes would be ustoppable... As for who will end the 2-stroke first.. everyone knows kawa will, they already stopped making the 125.. Then suzuki most likely, only because they were in the same money problem kawasaki was and thats why they joined.. then honda, yamaha.. and most likely KTM last..

nephron · Jan 2, 2006

Considering both have been around since the 1880's, I doubt either will ever go away entirely. As regards the 2 stroke specifically...if you could compare the two...how many people in the gas crisis 70's era ever thought the hemi would come back? Things change, but old technology (especially when it's good) never goes away.

Zenith · Jan 2, 2006

XRpredator said:
2 strokes suck

Interesting how you find your way into just about every 2 stroke thread though isn't it. You sure there's not still a bit of 2 stroke left in you, deep down there? It tends to surface when you put your foot to the floor in a fast car and it leaps forward, or maybe that feeling just leaves you feeling scared :p.

We can still buy the KX125 here crazytrails, I'm thinking of having one for next year actually... They only stopped it in the US.

i_955 · Jan 2, 2006

http://www.dirtrider.net/forums3/showthread.php?t=115201

The first couple and the last 5 paragraphs sums it up pretty simply and straight to the point.

It is all about feeding the manufacturers, dealers/parts/sales and repair.

The YZ250 lump hasn’t changed since 1999! It is still top of its class.
Why would anyone need a new 2 stroke every year or two? It isn’t because of the motor.

That question can’t be posed in the 4 stroke realm right now.
They can’t redesign them fast enough which means a new bike very year or your falling behind.

Buy buy buy them up.
By the time my two stoke is dead, the 4 stroke should be customer/field engineered to perfection.

Someone · Jan 3, 2006

I just haven't considered a 4 stroke due to the noise. I've ridden a couple, and had a blast, but I can't get over the noise level. Some of the guys I ride with have these LOUDASS exhausts on them. They like them loud. Why would you want a loud bike for piddling around in the woods(where we ride)? According to them, they have to be that loud to get power. That's something that will have to change before I switch over.

JPIVEY · Jan 3, 2006

Someone, your buddies are not only misinformed, but a threat to their own riding future, there are pipes out there that will get you to 96dbs and less without any noticable loss, we have a mantatory 96db requirement out here in D37 and those that try will pass @ 96 or less and have no complaints.

Well, other than the " if harleys can do it, why can't I " complaints

I got my 426 @ a 102 db with a WB R4 down to 93.4 with a E series and insert and actually improved the low and mid range

2strokesrule · Jan 5, 2006

4 strokes are for people that cant handle 2 strokes.

Rich Rohrich · Jan 5, 2006

2strokesrule said:
4 strokes are for people that cant handle 2 strokes.

Just back from your Mensa meeting?

JPIVEY · Jan 5, 2006

2strokesrule said:
4 strokes are for people that cant handle 2 strokes.

Yeah and if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their a$$.

BTW, how's that Atari game station holding up :nener:

Poll: How long will it take?

When will the 250 2-stoke stop bieng made?

It will never die! 2-strokes forever!

2-3 years

4-6 years

7-10 years

Not soon enough! End this stupid thread

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