Poll: How long will it take?

[2strokesrule]

I hope your right ellandoh.

 

[Tom L]

I think they should increase the cc's on the 2 strokes to even things back up!!! How about increasing the 125's to 200cc and increasing the 250's to 300cc!!! Then let's see the thumpers keep up!!!

 

[JPIVEY]

2s technology is obsolete and environmentally unfriendly, 4s will dominate for years, power will increase and the weight will decrease

The writing is on the wall guys, 2s in the mainstream is history

 

[wardy]

Sorry I muttled through all this and find Jpivey your not totally correct. the new deisel turds are not meeting carb standards either. The MX machines in some cases on some models are more polutant then some of the main stream 2 strokes when mixed correctly. The problem is that with 2 strokes thats a variable, with turds it isn't.
2 strokes will be around a long time, they will be re invented when they run out this thumper craze. Right now many riders are going back to the 2 stroke after one top end scatter on the thumper.

Off road 2 stroke is still the bike of choice to the "serious" rider who doesnt want to throw the extra wieght around. Play riders ride thumpers all day long, but the minute they jump to the thumper which is race oriented comes the trouble. Riders don't like maintaince period.
IF AMA wouldn't have handi-capped this whole deal for the factorys to do this, it all would be a mute point.
Problem the companies had was they were running out of "cheap" COOL things to make you or anyone buy a "new" improved" machine, hence now thumpers are "better".......


I see on the sig line you are on an ATK, LOL I also read some where in this way to long of a thread that the thumpers are the future.........well if they don't be quiet we don't have a future. Because the sound today is ten times worse then it was before they started making those turds.

I think its time to eliminate handi-capping and race heads up CCs, today we basically have 250, and open class.
For any of you who have rode a 450, but may not have rode like a cr500, they pretty much feel the same. "big feel" with a big motor. one exception.
The 450 wieght is higher. and it weighs more.
The 500 hits harder and needs more clutch, but with a few special things done can track the same. Blow up a either and I know which one I can fix, and want to buy parts for.

Everyone is being and has been lead down this path, lots of followers i guess.

you can tell i am on vacation and have to much time on my hands.

:)


JMVHO

wardy

 

[JPIVEY]

Hey Wardy, you're correct about me not being totally correct, I was more into hack'n on you 2s guys but, a majority of the riders aren't serious racers,most will never see a track and most of that group aren't serious offroaders either, they'll buy bikes to ride on the holidays and maybe a few times during the on season, they spend most of their time at the dunes or joy riding with their bud, kids and family.

This same group will go out and buy the track orientated bike ( that includes 2s ) which doesn't meet CARB stds ( and doesn't really need to ) instead of bikes like the CRF-X,EXC, WR's etc which do meet CARB stds and are blowing 96 and less dbs and therefore are environmentally friendly ( or at least moreso ).

I think you'll remember back in the 80's, maybe even late 80's the federal Goverment threaten the industry with a ban on all 2s, not just dirt bikes but, Lawn equip, outboards, anything powered by 2s, that was/is the reason the focus went towards the 4s, not because the industry ran out of selling options, they were threaten by losing their biggest market in the world.

I think the RFS bikes are still in the embryonic stage and will only get better, faster and lighter, whereas the 2s technology peaked years ago.


Oh, and why are you laughing at my ATK, it's a great bike and DS , plenty of power, airhead, E button, handles great, simple and functional; It's green friendly, quite and no coolant, so it won't blow chunks in the slow speed, tight, canyons in the dead of summer AND !! it's made in the USA :aj:

Oh and CARB can bite my :moon:

 

[wardy]

LOL thats cool, I only wrote this whole note because I seen some where in here you bustin some one about being "up with the times" at the same time riding ATK. I raced maicos long after they were "cool" until I met up with service honda in `1995, of course i am a die hard honda dude now. but before that i did a stint on can ams. I truely think this whole deal is market motivated, and am Totally amazed at the people that just "follow" the ad campaigns.
But hey thats how it works.
I just hope that our whole sport will get this sound in check, or we all loose.

did i mention i will ride my 500 2 stroke til they pry it from my cold dead hands?

:)

wardy

 

[JPIVEY]

Right on Wardy

I didn't get into riding 4s until 01, a buddy had just bought a 426 and I was on a 250, he wanted to check out my suspension so we swap for a bit, what was funny was, at first I thought is was a POS, it kept crapping out high on the pipe, when I said something about it, he told me I was hitting the Rev limiter and to knock the sh*t off, once I learn to stay in the meat of the PB I was hooked, the next month I had a 520 and been loving them ever since.

Lately I got into dual sporting ( body can't take the beating anymore ), so I got hooked up on this ATK DS,

To be totally honest, they are all great, in the H/H we got guys in the top 10 OA on 125's and 250F's against the big boys on 650's 525's and 450's; It all in how you use what you have.

 

[crazybeef]

In the near future, the 2 strokes will be marketed towards the Freestyle MX rider. For example Honda will offer an all black plastic model with chopped off fenders, holes in the side plates, grab bars, Metal Mulisha decals, high bend bars and a free set of shoulder pads with rubber spikes.
KTM and Yamaha will offer similar models.
Suzuki will go one step forward and have a front end that will spin all the way around like Travis's bike.
Kawasaki will stop making their 2 strokes all because they never really figured out how to build a good one to begin with.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

:yikes:

 

[nephron]

In general, I have become unenthralled with this 2 stroke vs 4 stroke crap, but I have one observation that I think is actually valid (keeping in mind that I am absolutely unbiased ;) ).

Destry Abbott will be converting to a KXF450 soon, and is being paid to say things like "yeah, the KX500 is dated in so many ways..... :blah: )....at least that's how I see it. :) At any rate, historically comparing his KX250 vs 500 results, there's no match. The big bore wins by far. Perhaps by race/style/choice, etc. Regardless, his results on the 500 are indellible. This includes the last 20 years of "other" bike development where the 500 has been stagnant, and also against the current crop of 450F's out there. Bar none, none compare. Now he's planning on the change. In my mind, he's also planning on a lot of DNF's and a lot of nightmares----including the probability that he's waking up with sweats already. How can you beat an unbreakable, solid big bore 2 stroke in a scramble or desert race? Answer: Ya can't. Everywhere else, the 500 SUCKS, and I'll be the first one to say it. But he's gonna be hurting, and I'd be willing to put cash on it if anyone cares to gamble. ;)

 

[hellbertos]

Personally, I would like to see the big 5 market technoligically advanced 2t's which address emissions issues w/ fuel injection... which at the same time would add to performance and eliminate jetting hassles. Keep all the BS marketing... give me solid technological advancement.

Hey Wardy, I'm w/ ya... let's even the playing cc field. It obvious that the geniuses at the AMA had no idea what to set a 4T limit at so they arbitrarily picked one that turned out to be too high. They'll have to make themselves look worse by playing catch up and raising 2T cc limits, but it is so blatantly obvious that 4T displacement is too high that it is the only logical thing to do.

Come to think of it, I don't think they can make themselves look any worse after the whole name change fiasco. MX Lites?!?! I still can't believe that was the best they could do. I wonder what Marty, Bob, Broc, The Bomber, etc. would have thought about that one...

 

[JPIVEY]

I don't know nep, I think his biggest concern is the 4spd vs the 5 & 6 spd of Honda & KTM, in the tight stuff He'll have the advantage, but the Valley runs will eat him up, that and Kurt doing the season on a 525.

I don't think the disadantage is in the 450 vs 500, 2s or 4s, I think it's in the 4 spd vs 6, at least out here were it's WFO, back east he may do much better

 

[trevor9a]

I hope never. It seems like whenever I ride the tight stuff with people on the newer 4-strokes I spend the day waiting while they're trying to start their bikes. Not to mention the only time I seem to get hurt is while I'm screw'in around waiting for someone!

 

[i_955]

I hope never. It seems like whenever I ride the tight stuff with people on the newer 4-strokes I spend the day waiting while they're trying to start their bikes. Not to mention the only time I seem to get hurt is while I'm screw'in around waiting for someone!

hehehe lol, good stuff.

 

[wardy]

I thought i was done but na I was listening to some archieves stuff, listen to a little of what Whitlock says here. Really plainly tells it like it is. Not to mention you get some eric and rich also! This gives a pretty accurate description on the demise or "planned" demise of the the 2 stroke. AND just how many times do we hear "SALES" in this little ditty.

http://www.pitpassradio.com/archives/ppr051129hr1.wax
November 29, 2005 Listen Now Hour # 1
Steve Whitelock
Eric Gorr
Rich Rohrich
Steve Polk

 

[Tiger]

Now that the AMA has chosen to make the SX tracks LESS TECHNICAL and more about speed...the 250 2 stroke loses it's advantage.

Final nail in the coffin if you ask me. :(

I hate the Anaheim 2 SX track FWIW. BORING!

Note to AMA: There is already a Supermoto program! ;) :D

 

[ellandoh]

last ditch effort ARENACROSS :rotfl: :rotfl: ............... :bang:

 

[nephron]

I don't know nep, I think his biggest concern is the 4spd vs the 5 & 6 spd of Honda & KTM, in the tight stuff He'll have the advantage, but the Valley runs will eat him up, that and Kurt doing the season on a 525.

Last I checked, my KX500 was a 5 speed and fully capable of 120mph on a wide open baja run with gears.... ;)

 

[CamDayKX125(4)]

since bubba,rc, chad, and others are fancieing 450s, the two-stroke 250 MIGHT die out in a couple of years. the 125s and two- stroke 250s take a beating from the four-strokes because of their classes. they should have the 125s race together, the 250 two and four-stroke race together, and the 450s race together.(whos with me?)

 

[phranticness]

I'm with ya on that, how can they have double the displacement raceing each other?, It's crazy.

 

[CamDayKX125(4)]

thanks for that comment phranticness. hey nephron, howd you find out it(your kx 500) hit 120mph? im wanting to know how fast a 00' kx 125 can go in mph.

 

[karterron]

since bubba,rc, chad, and others are fancieing 450s, the two-stroke 250 MIGHT die out in a couple of years. the 125s and two- stroke 250s take a beating from the four-strokes because of their classes. they should have the 125s race together, the 250 two and four-stroke race together, and the 450s race together.(whos with me?)

125 yes, separate them and in fact some places are doing that now. I know there are some tracks around here starting a 2 stroke only class.

250 no, on the local level a 250 two stroke is not giving up that much to a 450. A good rider will still win on a 250 two stroke at the majority of local tracks. They don't give up as much as the 125 does, so no need to separate for most riders.

 

[Solid State]

Ditto on the local 250 comment. I've noticed that the 450's get the start, but the better riders always come out on top.

 

[ls1cameric]

From the way the poll is looking, 2T's will be around for a while. I'm hoping so anyway. But if they do phase out i think they will have a come back in about 10 years.

 

[DanmacK]

Interesting article in April's Didr Rider Mag. about the 125'cc 's ......
i hope they are around when my son is tall enough to race em' !
Danmack...........Tow-Smokes Rule !