Poll: How long will it take?

[nephron]

As a matter of common knowledge, all these open bikes do about 120mph in BAJA. However, there was an actual top end test in Dirt Bike magazine last year: XR650, KX500, KTM520--XR was the fastest by a few mph. All were b/t 110-120, I think. Either way, I'll never gear mine for that! Ever stuck your head outside a car at 120? Or ridden on a ferringless bike at that speed on the highway? Life's a biotch at that speed.

BTW...top speed questions typically don't get answered around here much. ;)

 

[john3_16]

I've always wondered how the riders mechanics feel about having to work on a 4 stroke now that 2 strokes are no longer at the top in the pro ranks...

Got my answer today...TWMX sent out a survey to mechanics for many of the pros and kept their names confidential and asked if they were for or against the move to 4 strokes...

62 percent said they were against the move to 4 strokes..Especially the "lites class" because of the poor reliability and the increase in the cost of riding.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

And when you spend the big bucks on one of those foul-handling, money sucking, time bombs, defensive pride keeps you convincing yourself (and others) that it's wonderful. Brutal statement, but accurate......... I owned one.

 

[Redlined1]

The factories are concentrating on the 450's and 250 thumpers. The two strokers will slowly be stoped by the factories. Hopefully we will see some special edition models the last years they are made.

 

[2wheels]

2 strokes

I thought I saw an ad for outboard motors where Evenrude was braging up the reliability of their 2-stroke.

 

[john3_16]

Yup....I've seen the infomercial...Lighter, more powerful, more efficient, and cleaner burning than 4 strokes of the same size...

I wonder if that type of technology could be incorporated effectively on a dirtbike..

I remember when 4 strokes were the "reliable" bikes and 2 strokes were the high maintenance, high output racebike....Now to make a 4 stroke competitive with a 2 stroke you need nearly double the displacement and a much higher RPM ceiling , putting much more stress on an engine that has many more moving parts to worry about...

It would be too much if the stress of extra RPM 4 strokes need was only applied to piston, rings, pin, bearings, cylinder, rod, crank ect ect.....But now you've got cams, cam chains, tensioners, valve #1, valve #2, valve #3, valve #4, sometimes a valve #5, retainers, and springs being stressed at these higher rpms that 4 strokes need.

A 250cc 2 stroke revs to about 10,000 RPM...A 250cc 4 stroke revs to over 13,000 RPM and still fails to match the 2 stroke power output despite the added stress of 3,000 or more RPM...The 450cc version revs to over 11,000 RPM...

 

[zx6rman96]

you just can't beat a good ol two-stroke. Reliable,fast,easy to maintain, and cheap too. Remember...95% rider 5% bike....I hang with thumpers all day on our tracks...just gotta keep on the pipe! Two-strokes are the history of motocross...why would anyone wanna phase that out?

 

[john3_16]

I was looking at Dirt Rider magazine and they had acceleration times from a complete stop and up to 4 seconds the 2 strokes are definitely quicker...However, 3rd gear roll ons favor the 4 stroke as they have the strong flat torque curve to accelerate faster from a roll in a higher gear...

The two strokes clearly have an advantage on short start straights...MC and Brown have also demonstrated this in their races...Unfortunately neither are the same caliber as the top 3 at this time....

 

[cnielse5]

I have seen some posts on this subject and want to up date some of my thoughts.

2007 end of cr125 and cr250 for honda.

2008 rm 125 and 250 gone.

2009 Kx 250 is no more.

2010 yz 250 dies

ktme will keep pumping out 2 stroke xc's and exc's but the 2 stroke sx's die in 2010

 

[hellbertos]

Yamaha test crew (riders and engineers) on YZ125s at Glen Helen

Saw this at MXA.com.

http://www.motocrossactionmag.com/M...0&tier=3&nid=15B34A9569634F68B040E8D420A0172B

I thought it was interesting that at least one major (2 counting KTM) is still investing in 2-strokes. I've been a honda guy forever, but I see a Yammie or a KTM in my future... especially when they go to DI and get 'em green sticker-able!

 

[pace]

Was reading somewhere that Honda have announced that 2007 is the last year for the CR125 and CR250? No big surprise if so.

By 2010, it will only be Yamaha and KTM selling smokers methinks.

From a motor perspective I'd happily continue to run a 250 against the 450Fs, but my concern is with chassis technology falling behind. I will be looking at a replacement machine in 2008, and unless by some miracle the manufacturers continue to invest heavily in the two stroke then I suspect I will end up with a four.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Honda has always been the "politicaly correct" bike manufacturer............hasn't offered a 2-stroke "enduro" bike since.....? And we can say "get use to technology, the 2-stroke is dead".......but why IS it dead........because we are FORCED into politicaly correct! We all know Honda can make bad-to-the bone motors, and if it wasn't for keeping big brother "happy" they would be right up front in the enduro market if they saw it as correct. Too bad they've buckled under. Weather we like 2strokes or 4.........the government is scaring us into our bike buying decision.........sad, because we ARE the government (or we use to be)

 

[kdxtodd]

Honda has always been the "politicaly correct" bike manufacturer............hasn't offered a 2-stroke "enduro" bike since.....? And we can say "get use to technology, the 2-stroke is dead".......but why IS it dead........because we are FORCED into politicaly correct! We all know Honda can make bad-to-the bone motors, and if it wasn't for keeping big brother "happy" they would be right up front in the enduro market if they saw it as correct. Too bad they've buckled under. Weather we like 2strokes or 4.........the government is scaring us into our bike buying decision.........sad, because we ARE the government (or we use to be)

And thats why i will never buy a honda. :moon: What a load of crap.

 

[Okiewan]

Uhhh... Yamaha was the first to give in ...
Kawasaki is the only one refusing to ship a 2-stroke to the USA ....
Isn't Kawi bailing on the only off-road 2-stroke they make (KDX)? Actually, they bailed on it what, 10 years ago?

Question, what was the last 2-stroke Honda off road bike?

 

[john3_16]

MX action interviewd Mitch Payton and he said he was against the move to 4 strokes and the AMA decision to allow them so much more displacement.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Uhhh... Yamaha was the first to give in ...
Kawasaki is the only one refusing to ship a 2-stroke to the USA ....
Isn't Kawi bailing on the only off-road 2-stroke they make (KDX)? Actually, they bailed on it what, 10 years ago?

Question, what was the last 2-stroke Honda off road bike?

Could we call the old MT Elsinores enduro bikes.......sort of? Yamaha had the WR200's and 250's. Kawasaki had the KDX200's and 250's. Suzy had the RMX.

 

[igy]

Could we call the old MT Elsinores enduro bikes.......sort of? Yamaha had the WR200's and 250's. Kawasaki had the KDX200's and 250's. Suzy had the RMX.

Honda had the CRM 250.

 

[Dirtvet]

I'm dating myself here, but remember when the 2 stokes came to dominate the open class late 60's? Pushed out the old thumpers because of power / weight and what it did for handling. Those 250 + cc 2 stoke bikes bikes were not reliable and seized regularly. They had open pipes. My right ear hasn't functioned since 1972 because of the racket of a open expansion chamber. All that mattered was that they were the best on the track. 4 strokes are now, because of the size advantage granted them by OUR Industry leaders. That will, I think, kill the 2 stroke very shortly. Look at the 500 cc 2 strokes. It will go that route. I think, unfortunately, that until 2 strokes become again the best on the track they will not come back once gone. Sad but true.

 

[XRpredator]

Honda had the CRM 250.

that wasn't a Honda product

Yamaha had the WR200's and 250's. Kawasaki had the KDX200's and 250's. Suzy had the RMX.

Yamaha had the IT line for years, Suzuki had the PE.

 

[2-Strokes 4-ever]

Honda had the CRM 250.

Who put together the CRM? I know the CRE was a Kevin Hines/Italian project.

 

[xxBLAZExx]

In my opinion..

I am new to this sport so I have not yet earned the right to say weather 2T or 4T is better. I can say that my childrens future is more important to me than speed,weight,handling..etc.
So if one is better for the enviroment than the other thats the one I am saving for! :cool:

 

[YamaB]

2-strokes are still the weapon of choice for offroad racing... I can't see ktm getting ride of theirs any time soon...

 

[Poptart]

why do so many people hate 2 strokes? dont get it :| :think:

 

[IndyMX]

i cant see them bringing back the 2 strokes. the powerfull 4 strokes have just been released!!! 2 strokes have been around and known as race motors a long time with NO company's even thinking about advancing the 4 stroke motor. I bet that in 10 more years 2 strokes will be considered antiques

Showing your age here.. My dad used to race flattrack in the early 70's. He ran a 4 stroke. They are not a new technology. That was back before the two strokes were dominating the tracks.

Times change.

Two smokers will probably not go away, they will take a break and be back for the next act.

Did you notice how I used proper spelling, grammer and punctuation? Try it sometime, people might just take you seriously for a change. :whoa:

 

[john3_16]

How nice it must be for a manufacturer to make a bigger engine and get credited for being on the cutting edge of technology.


4 strokes have been around a long, long time.