- Nov 22, 2000
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Thanks for the voice of reason, brandolph. Surely there's more to the story than what's been presented.
Police handling of Dirt bikes in Baltimore
- Thread starter 2stroke
- Start date
Thats pretty near to being one of the stupidest things ive ever heard.
So what are these morons gonna do if the drug runners start using Ford Mustangs instead of dirtbikes?
Why, outlaw Mustangs of course!! :confused:
Think the Ford dealers in the area will like that one???
Or, hey mebbe they'll start runnin Caddies!?
Better hope the Mayor or members of the city council dont own one, cuz guess what? Now caddies'll be illegal. :confused: :confused:
Someone oughta make these commie rejects pack up and go home. :thumb:
- Nov 22, 2000
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This is what I came up with after a quick search:
At another level, Baltimore's campaign against "brazen teenagers mounted on dirt bikes ... ripping through streets with little regard for traffic laws, terrorizing their neighbors," depends at least in part on citizen involvement. The police commander of the city's Eastern District said he "relies on residents and surveillance to inform police where the bikes are stored."
Also:
BANNED BIKES MAY BE BANISHED ABROAD "Talk about getting rid of a problem. The Baltimore City Council wants to send one of its scourges to another hemisphere," reported The Baltimore Sun newspaper regarding the city council's impending vote on a plan to donate seized dirt bikes to needy groups in Africa or elsewhere out of the country.
"Get them out of Baltimore and send the message that we are not going to tolerate them anymore," said Councilman Melvin L. Stukes, who supports the proposal to ship the bikes abroad, so long as there is no cost to taxpayers. "We want them out of the city, period."
Baltimore outlawed the use of dirt bikes two years ago after two young men died when their bikes slammed into the back of a 10,000-pound delivery truck. Police have estimated that 1,000 such bikes are in the city and have resulted in several deaths. In the past two years, they have seized 119 dirt bikes and 18 unregistered motorcycles.
Two groups based in Africa are interested in taking the dirt bikes off Baltimore's hands. The bikes would help people in African countries where roads are not in good condition.
City Council President Sheila Dixon said the council did not want them auctioned off by the Police Department because the bikes could return to city streets.
But Stukes and Dixon were concerned about ensuring the bikes didn't end up in the wrong hands.
"The last headline we want to see is that all ... 75 bikes shipped from Baltimore have ended up in drug lords' hands," Stukes said.
At another level, Baltimore's campaign against "brazen teenagers mounted on dirt bikes ... ripping through streets with little regard for traffic laws, terrorizing their neighbors," depends at least in part on citizen involvement. The police commander of the city's Eastern District said he "relies on residents and surveillance to inform police where the bikes are stored."
Also:
BANNED BIKES MAY BE BANISHED ABROAD "Talk about getting rid of a problem. The Baltimore City Council wants to send one of its scourges to another hemisphere," reported The Baltimore Sun newspaper regarding the city council's impending vote on a plan to donate seized dirt bikes to needy groups in Africa or elsewhere out of the country.
"Get them out of Baltimore and send the message that we are not going to tolerate them anymore," said Councilman Melvin L. Stukes, who supports the proposal to ship the bikes abroad, so long as there is no cost to taxpayers. "We want them out of the city, period."
Baltimore outlawed the use of dirt bikes two years ago after two young men died when their bikes slammed into the back of a 10,000-pound delivery truck. Police have estimated that 1,000 such bikes are in the city and have resulted in several deaths. In the past two years, they have seized 119 dirt bikes and 18 unregistered motorcycles.
Two groups based in Africa are interested in taking the dirt bikes off Baltimore's hands. The bikes would help people in African countries where roads are not in good condition.
City Council President Sheila Dixon said the council did not want them auctioned off by the Police Department because the bikes could return to city streets.
But Stukes and Dixon were concerned about ensuring the bikes didn't end up in the wrong hands.
"The last headline we want to see is that all ... 75 bikes shipped from Baltimore have ended up in drug lords' hands," Stukes said.
1. I agree that we do not know the exact provisions of the law and I did specify IF. I searched and basically found what JP did which would imply that dirt bikes are illegal within the Baltimore city limits. So while the dirt bikes might have been legally purchased, it appears that it is illegal to possess them within the city limits, hence the ability for them to bust down the doors and take them. Illegal is illegal, just like drugs, gambling, guns, and certain relations with your spouse in some states.
BUT, don't fool yourself about the 4th amendment. A whole plethora of laws and interpretations have pretty much nullified the bill of rights. I have already mentioned the seizures of autos in NJ...a VERY SIMILAR situation. It started as an ordinance to prevent junk cars from accumulating in people's back yards. It was eventually perverted to the point where antique car collectors were being hassled by the sheriffs office.
ALSO, tell an officer that he can't search your car during a traffic stop without a warrant and see what happens.
Additionally, are you the least bit familiar with asset forfeiture laws that allow the government to seize your money and property under the slightest suspicion that you are involved in drug dealing or money laundering? You are guilty until proven innocent and don't be surpirsed if your property gets misplaced before you prove yourself innocent. Don't let them catch you walking around with a bunch of cash in your pocket.
Look into the domestic violence laws that allow them to come into your house and seize any firearms or other possible weapons and place restraining orders on you before trial. Once again, don't be surprised if you have a hard time reclaiming your property once you are found innocent.
If you really want to lose some sleep, take a look at the actual details of Patriot Acts I and II. Look into what Poindexter was working on before he got fired (Total Information Awareness). See if you come away with some sort of idea about how the government feels about your constitutional rights.
3. I also assume you are not a law officer and do not know many. Just like an officer can chose to give you a traffic ticket or not.....an officer can charge you for illegally carrying concealed or let you off with a warning, they can impound your bike for riding on the highway or let you off with a warning, they can arrest you for having an illegal poker game or just break it up, they can arrest you for trying to pick up a prostitute or just send you home, they can choose to give you the field sobriety test or not, etc. etc. I don't see any reason why they couldn't choose not to seize somebodies dirtbike from their garage when that person obviously isn't dealing drugs or operating it on the highway. I did a ride along with the PD not long ago and they can show you where all of the drug houses are...I said "why aren't they being busted instead of us just driving around?" He shrugged his shoulders. Officer discretion goes far beyond minor traffic violations...and like my job, I make many decisions without my supervisor's direct involvement.
And to clarify, we are talking about officers overlooking the fact that somebody simply possesses a dirt bike, not about an officer ignoring the fact that a bike is stolen.
So I'll reiterate: I don't know for certain that they are just driving around seizing dirtbikes BUT from all information presented and from what I have found on the internet...it seems possible. So based on that, I would hope that the police had better things to do than cruise around and seize dirtbikes out of people's garages because last time I was there...it sure didn't seem like the drug problem had been solved. I know when I took my oath it was to uphold the constitution....not blindly enforce every stupid law that some misguided politician passed while over reacting to a problem or as a feel good measure so they could say they "were doing something."
"Considered loud and extremely dangerous, the Baltimore City Council outlawed dirt bikes because they were used for illegal purposes such as drug running. The bikes have also caused crashes and have been involved in deadly accidents, Simms reported. "
Outlawed dirt bikes.
Somebody call the cop shop and ask em what this means.
Outlawed owning offroad bikes?
Outlawed owning or riding dual sport bikes?
Outlawed riding offroad bikes in places like vacant lots within city limits?
Outlawed registering your street legal dirt bike?
This could go on and on. But it has got me dreamin' about how much fun could be had tearin' around the city on a big thumper with the cops on your tail. Yee haw!
I think I'd have to opt for a motard bike.
Outlawed dirt bikes.
Somebody call the cop shop and ask em what this means.
Outlawed owning offroad bikes?
Outlawed owning or riding dual sport bikes?
Outlawed riding offroad bikes in places like vacant lots within city limits?
Outlawed registering your street legal dirt bike?
This could go on and on. But it has got me dreamin' about how much fun could be had tearin' around the city on a big thumper with the cops on your tail. Yee haw!
I think I'd have to opt for a motard bike.
jmics19067
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- Jan 22, 2002
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good idea ! illegal activities and numbskulls attached to them should be dealt with
bad if not illegal way to deal with it
OK one more post here.
Thinking of this from the drug dealer/runner point of view-Why, if you were packing around a bunch of cocaine or something, would you jump on a CR 250 and haul ass through the city drawing a bunch of police cars and choppers and such when you could just get in your car and drive around all day obeying laws without getting a second look?
None of this makes any sense to this red-neck.
Thinking of this from the drug dealer/runner point of view-Why, if you were packing around a bunch of cocaine or something, would you jump on a CR 250 and haul ass through the city drawing a bunch of police cars and choppers and such when you could just get in your car and drive around all day obeying laws without getting a second look?
None of this makes any sense to this red-neck.
If you had you cocaine in a back pack or just ditch it, you can jump on your CR250 and get through traffic a whole lot quicker than a police car and hopefully escape before the helicopter gets overhead.
From what I gather, there is also a "non-pursuit" rule in Baltimore.
From what I gather, there is also a "non-pursuit" rule in Baltimore.
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Some tidbits from the Baltimore code located here (subtitle 40 is relevant to "Dirt Bikes"):
http://cityservices.baltimorecity.gov/charterandcodes/Code/Art 19 - PoliceOrds.pdf
1) Law applies to dirt-bikes, mini-bikes, atvs, similar vehicles (mopeds, scooters, bicycles with motors attached), and any motorcycle that is eligible for registration but is not currently registered.
2)Notice that you cannot "operate" on public or PRIVATE land in Baltimore City
§ 40-6. Prohibited conduct — riding or driving.
No person may drive or ride any dirt bike or any unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle on any public or private property that is located in Baltimore City or, wherever located, that is owned or regulated by the City.
3)Self Explanatory
§ 40-11. Seizure and forfeiture authorized.
(a) Grounds for seizure.
Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a dirt bike or an unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle is subject to seizure and forfeiture if it is used in violation of this subtitle.
4)Probable cause could be a call from a neighbor....truthful or not
§ 40-12. Seizure by police.
(a) When warrant not needed.
A police officer need not have a warrant to seize a dirt bike or an unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle if:
(1) the police officer has probable cause to believe the vehicle has been used in violation of this subtitle; and
(2) a warrant is not constitutionally required under the circumstances.
5) Here's an interesting one - you cannot buy gas for your dirt bike
§ 40-9. Prohibited conduct — motor fuel sales.
No service station nor any other person may sell, transfer, or dispense motor fuel for delivery into any dirt bike or into any unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle.
6)Notice YOUR property is forfeited BEFORE your day in court
§ 40-16. Early retrieval by owner.
(a) Appraisal of vehicle.
(1) If the owner of the seized vehicle wants to repossess it before the petition is decided, the Clerk of the Circuit Court shall have an appraisal made.
(2) The appraisal shall be in writing, under oath, to the Clerk of the Circuit Court.
(b) Owner to submit bond.
(1) When the appraisal is filed, the owner may post a bond, payable to the City,
in an amount equal to:
(i) all court costs that may accrue; plus
(ii) the greater of:
(A) the appraised value of the vehicle; or
(B) $500.
7) I didn't find anything expressly forbidding the possession of "dirt bikes" in Baltimore. You just can't start it or buy gas for it and you probably shouldn't roll it around in the yard where your neighbors can see.
http://cityservices.baltimorecity.gov/charterandcodes/Code/Art 19 - PoliceOrds.pdf
1) Law applies to dirt-bikes, mini-bikes, atvs, similar vehicles (mopeds, scooters, bicycles with motors attached), and any motorcycle that is eligible for registration but is not currently registered.
2)Notice that you cannot "operate" on public or PRIVATE land in Baltimore City
§ 40-6. Prohibited conduct — riding or driving.
No person may drive or ride any dirt bike or any unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle on any public or private property that is located in Baltimore City or, wherever located, that is owned or regulated by the City.
3)Self Explanatory
§ 40-11. Seizure and forfeiture authorized.
(a) Grounds for seizure.
Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a dirt bike or an unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle is subject to seizure and forfeiture if it is used in violation of this subtitle.
4)Probable cause could be a call from a neighbor....truthful or not
§ 40-12. Seizure by police.
(a) When warrant not needed.
A police officer need not have a warrant to seize a dirt bike or an unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle if:
(1) the police officer has probable cause to believe the vehicle has been used in violation of this subtitle; and
(2) a warrant is not constitutionally required under the circumstances.
5) Here's an interesting one - you cannot buy gas for your dirt bike
§ 40-9. Prohibited conduct — motor fuel sales.
No service station nor any other person may sell, transfer, or dispense motor fuel for delivery into any dirt bike or into any unregistered motorcycle or similar vehicle.
6)Notice YOUR property is forfeited BEFORE your day in court
§ 40-16. Early retrieval by owner.
(a) Appraisal of vehicle.
(1) If the owner of the seized vehicle wants to repossess it before the petition is decided, the Clerk of the Circuit Court shall have an appraisal made.
(2) The appraisal shall be in writing, under oath, to the Clerk of the Circuit Court.
(b) Owner to submit bond.
(1) When the appraisal is filed, the owner may post a bond, payable to the City,
in an amount equal to:
(i) all court costs that may accrue; plus
(ii) the greater of:
(A) the appraised value of the vehicle; or
(B) $500.
7) I didn't find anything expressly forbidding the possession of "dirt bikes" in Baltimore. You just can't start it or buy gas for it and you probably shouldn't roll it around in the yard where your neighbors can see.
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- Thread starter
- #37
You see, the thing about this seizure procedure is this:
They had outlawed being able to chase anyone on a dirtbike in the city a couple of years ago after a few deaths occured. This whole "get them where they are stored" initiative is an outgrowth of that.
In the months after they outlawed the chases, the bikers were running rampant. Forget drug runnig, they were joyriding. There was a lot of video showing dozens of riders at once on the street, doing wheelies etc, right behind cop cars who were (and had to) ignore them. SOme local news stations made a big deal out of showing this video.It was ebarassing to the police department, and so they cooked up this whole deal about grabbing them where they are kept. Usually crack houses, or abandoned lots, etc...
I have a buddy who does construction work for the city, and he gets to work in some simply lovely areas, and he is always telling me about all these bikes he sees in vacant houses!
Its the implications that bother me. Where was the AMA when this crap was getting pushed through the state house? I never saw it in any of my "action alerts"!
Ive lived within a mile of the city line on one side or another my whle life. In fact, the house that I grew up in had the line running through the back yard, I **** you not! My parents got 2 separate assesments, and paid city and couty taxes. I am imagining if I lived there now, Id have to keep my bikes in the front room.
I am seriuosly going to email some folks and see just what the deal is.
They had outlawed being able to chase anyone on a dirtbike in the city a couple of years ago after a few deaths occured. This whole "get them where they are stored" initiative is an outgrowth of that.
In the months after they outlawed the chases, the bikers were running rampant. Forget drug runnig, they were joyriding. There was a lot of video showing dozens of riders at once on the street, doing wheelies etc, right behind cop cars who were (and had to) ignore them. SOme local news stations made a big deal out of showing this video.It was ebarassing to the police department, and so they cooked up this whole deal about grabbing them where they are kept. Usually crack houses, or abandoned lots, etc...
I have a buddy who does construction work for the city, and he gets to work in some simply lovely areas, and he is always telling me about all these bikes he sees in vacant houses!
Its the implications that bother me. Where was the AMA when this crap was getting pushed through the state house? I never saw it in any of my "action alerts"!
Ive lived within a mile of the city line on one side or another my whle life. In fact, the house that I grew up in had the line running through the back yard, I **** you not! My parents got 2 separate assesments, and paid city and couty taxes. I am imagining if I lived there now, Id have to keep my bikes in the front room.
I am seriuosly going to email some folks and see just what the deal is.
- Thread starter
- #38
Below is a copy of my mail to the police dept. I will keep you posted as to the reply, if any.
Hello.
I have seen the recent films on the news regarding the siezure of dirt bikes in the city. WIll you please clarify the law as it relates to motocross bikes? I have heard the city has outlawed them. Surely, you must realize that Motocross racing is a legitimate hobby and sport that is enjoyed by many law abiding citizens.
I own several dirt bikes myself, but I live in the county. I am, however, going to be house hunting soon. I was considering Parkville as an area that I may like to move to. What happens if I move into the city? Can I legally store my racing bikes on my private property or not? I understand that riding them in the city is illegal, just like everywhere else that is not a racetrack, but can it really be that it's illegal to OWN and STORE one in the city? Say it isn't so!
Further, I really hope that every effort is made to return these seized bikes to their rightful owners before they are crated up and shipped to "develeoping countries" as the news reported.
Thank you,
Neil
Hello.
I have seen the recent films on the news regarding the siezure of dirt bikes in the city. WIll you please clarify the law as it relates to motocross bikes? I have heard the city has outlawed them. Surely, you must realize that Motocross racing is a legitimate hobby and sport that is enjoyed by many law abiding citizens.
I own several dirt bikes myself, but I live in the county. I am, however, going to be house hunting soon. I was considering Parkville as an area that I may like to move to. What happens if I move into the city? Can I legally store my racing bikes on my private property or not? I understand that riding them in the city is illegal, just like everywhere else that is not a racetrack, but can it really be that it's illegal to OWN and STORE one in the city? Say it isn't so!
Further, I really hope that every effort is made to return these seized bikes to their rightful owners before they are crated up and shipped to "develeoping countries" as the news reported.
Thank you,
Neil
http://www.citypaper.com/2003-05-21/sizzlin_feature3.html
A story about the people riding in violation of the law...in the park.
A story about the people riding in violation of the law...in the park.
Tahuya Rat
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- Apr 11, 2002
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This whole thing looks like just another social engineering experiment run amock - or maybe a parade of 'em. We got the "let us not chase criminals so they don't get hurt" experiment which probably followed the "let us decriminalize grand theft auto (including motorcycles) down to 'riding without permission' just like they do out west" experiment, toss in a few reinterpretations of civil rights, the latest fad amongst liberal judges, add a huge slice of bigotry, and there you be.
The city council has taken control of Baltimore, has the police chief's backing and is apparently disinterested in the rights of mere citizens.
The odds that all 500 bikes belonged to the drug dealing perps are long - why would they go to the trouble of purchasing dirt bikes which make them stand out, when they could just as easily buy street bikes and ride around unnoticed? Chances are most of those bikes are stolen, and instead of giving the rightful owners a chance to reclaim 'em, they're planning to ship 'em off to Africa, where they're gonna help out missionaries, uh huh, who're gonna learn to ride 50hp race bikes....and maintain 'em, too.......sure they will :think:
These bikes are gonna end up in a crusher soon as the council thinks they can get away with it IMO :flame:
The city council has taken control of Baltimore, has the police chief's backing and is apparently disinterested in the rights of mere citizens.
The odds that all 500 bikes belonged to the drug dealing perps are long - why would they go to the trouble of purchasing dirt bikes which make them stand out, when they could just as easily buy street bikes and ride around unnoticed? Chances are most of those bikes are stolen, and instead of giving the rightful owners a chance to reclaim 'em, they're planning to ship 'em off to Africa, where they're gonna help out missionaries, uh huh, who're gonna learn to ride 50hp race bikes....and maintain 'em, too.......sure they will :think:
These bikes are gonna end up in a crusher soon as the council thinks they can get away with it IMO :flame:
If it saves just one child....oh wait, that the gun controll issue. I looked at every post in this thread and thought it was a joke! I wish I lived closer, I would store your bikes.
I would love to see an Ethiopian ride a CRF 450. Keep us posted on this. This is goofy.
I would love to see an Ethiopian ride a CRF 450. Keep us posted on this. This is goofy.
MX, er I see whay your saying, but I really don't agree. If we posted a "for sale" on a bike we FOUND we would be guilty of trying to sell stolen property. If anyone noticed, we would be prosicuted. How can a city or state get by doing this?
The bikes should be offered to me. I promise I would do the right thing with them.
I had my bike stolen by a joyrider once at Jerico. Apparently the a-hole found little joy in riding my 1974 KD125 and dumped it into the weeds. The only way I got it back is that my father had been smart enough to write our family name and address on a paper and shove it inside the handlebar. The ranger allowed me to remove the throttle pipe to look for the note. Sure enough, it matched and I was on my way.
The bikes should be offered to me. I promise I would do the right thing with them.
I had my bike stolen by a joyrider once at Jerico. Apparently the a-hole found little joy in riding my 1974 KD125 and dumped it into the weeds. The only way I got it back is that my father had been smart enough to write our family name and address on a paper and shove it inside the handlebar. The ranger allowed me to remove the throttle pipe to look for the note. Sure enough, it matched and I was on my way.
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- Feb 9, 2000
- 2,450
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I can understand fining someone for riding a dirtbike in the street/park etc, but to seize and forfeit seems excessive - taking go-peds and electric scooters etc seems way over the top :ugg:
- Jun 15, 2001
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Correct me if I'm wrong (Marylanders ;) ), but I recall (when interviewing for Residency) a dank town that's totally out of control of the police. I got this sense that, particularly on the West side, there was no control over crime and the hoodlums were running rampant. On an off day, I decided (in my hick-like naivity) to walk to Poe's house from his grave ;) . Bad idea--and I was chased and almost killed.
When the 'match' was over, Hopkins sent me a letter asking why I didn't rank them...."The City".
So I guess I can understand the law, but bet it only applies (in reality) to beat down areas of town and decrepid buildings, since I highly doubt they would ever go to a middle class neighborhood and set charges on garage doors while the family's in the backyard grilling steaks on Sunday.
When the 'match' was over, Hopkins sent me a letter asking why I didn't rank them...."The City".
So I guess I can understand the law, but bet it only applies (in reality) to beat down areas of town and decrepid buildings, since I highly doubt they would ever go to a middle class neighborhood and set charges on garage doors while the family's in the backyard grilling steaks on Sunday.
jmics19067
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- Jan 22, 2002
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Nephron,
I am all up for getting rid of the drug dealers, siezing there possesions and getting ignorant arrogant idiots off the road but 2 things bother me about that probable truth of the law.
the insinuation that the more money you have the more above the law you can be, although it is a dark truth, If the law applies to one it should apply to all no matter the income.
2 that the it opens the door for the police to have the ability to just sieze property without due process and it also opens the door for other cities, states and the federal government to follow suite.
We offroaders have enough problems with the EPA, sierra club and earth first groups. We do not need a correlation between dirt bikes and drug dealers /crack heads and the law that legally connects the two.
As Ivan said before it is a bad idea to make a new law just because you can't uphold a good law.
I am all up for getting rid of the drug dealers, siezing there possesions and getting ignorant arrogant idiots off the road but 2 things bother me about that probable truth of the law.
the insinuation that the more money you have the more above the law you can be, although it is a dark truth, If the law applies to one it should apply to all no matter the income.
2 that the it opens the door for the police to have the ability to just sieze property without due process and it also opens the door for other cities, states and the federal government to follow suite.
We offroaders have enough problems with the EPA, sierra club and earth first groups. We do not need a correlation between dirt bikes and drug dealers /crack heads and the law that legally connects the two.
As Ivan said before it is a bad idea to make a new law just because you can't uphold a good law.
