"O" ring or non "O" ring chain?

[Chief]

If it's worn then it's worn. Kero won't help.

I always used Kero to clean my O-ring. I think it is perfect to clean and harmless on the rings. Many people recommend it.

My experience was that a standard chain will stretch quickly and you will have a chance to replace it soon. To me the o was worth it. Maybe it takes a negligible bit more power to drive, but once warm the links pivot easily. Maybe the O weighs a little more.

To me the O was worth it just because it lasted so long and needed so few adjustments. I never noticed any loss of power on my 250.

Chief

 

[zcookie49]

yeah, the guy who told me that has strictly ridden 2 strokes as well, not sure if that matters or not. He was stating that for woods riding it is not really as noticeable as with track riding. I have been doing mostly track the past couple of years so that is why I guess the switch would be better.
.
To tell the truth now, I had to adjust the stock standard chain alot, and the O-ring was solid, hardly ever touched it. Oh well, this will be a good experiment I guess as long as I am not adjusting chain slack every few rides.... :)
.
So I can use kerosene to soak the chain in to "clean it up, loosen it up"?... I just want to keep it as an emergency backup chain in case I went on a weekend ride or something and broke a chain or whatever.
Thanks for the info Chief.

 

[Chief]

I do all woods, no track, so that would explain a lot. I think most woods people lean towards the O-ring.

Yes Kero worked great for me with a toothbrush or nylon workbrush. Don't wanna be too rough on the rings.

I liked the clear stuff in the red can for lube, Honda or silkolene, not sure. It was slick but not sticky or tacky, really good stuff and helped keep the chain clean.

WD isn't good for the rubber. I think someone said it will attack and harden the rubber rings. For the non-o I used wd a lot just to keep it rust free and clean. When it stretched, I usually got lazy and let it go for awhile. It seemed like proper adjustment only stretched it out quicker.

Happy Trails!!!!!!!!

Chief

 

[MikeT]

So I can use kerosene to soak the chain in to "clean it up, loosen it up"?...

Well, I don't really think it will loosen it up because the "tightness" you feel is the pressure the o-rings put against the steel plates. The pressure is what keeps the dirt out and make it last longer. The power loss is very minor and I doubt you will notice it because we generally don't use all the power our bikes make anyway. A pro might notice it but not us.

I ran an O-ring on my 125 for about 3 years and it never gave me a problem. I used to get 2nd place to 4th in the holeshot consistantly against newer bikes and even 4-strokes. The minor power loss made no difference in my case even weighing 195 lbs.

Mike

 

[Jaybird]

I think the "pressure" he feels is the chain being having contaminants under the rings.
Ring chains that have had damaged rings, or have been neglected, often end up stiff and hard to flex...not the slight friction of a new chain, but stiff, kinked, and crappy.

The chain is toast. Throw it away. It will not be a good backup, as soon as it's mounted, it will immediately start wearing your new sprocket teeth away.

Think about what you said though...you ony adjusted the chain 2-3 times during it's life...yet your sprockets are worn. The chain growing from wear is what trashed out your sprocket teeth, unless you have been running it too tight.
You may not be adjusting the chain as often as it may need.

 

[MikeT]

I think the "pressure" he feels is the chain being having contaminants under the rings.
Ring chains that have had damaged rings, or have been neglected, often end up stiff and hard to flex...not the slight friction of a new chain, but stiff, kinked, and crappy.

Ya, It's hard to say what it is without seeing it. With it as old as it is contaminants (grit) is probably to blame. I thought he might be talking about the rubber tightness.

 

[a454elk]

Update, still running non O-ring chain on the 01 Zuki with regular cleanings and lubin. A little stretched now but still good to use.

 

[Jaybird]

How can that be, Elk?

Standard chains only last about two rides, yes?

:)

 

[MikeT]

Update, still running non O-ring chain on the 01 Zuki with regular cleanings and lubin. A little stretched now but still good to use.

Idling in the garage doesn't count as riding!

 

[a454elk]

Hardy har har fools! Hell, when I go riding, I use the chains to tie down the bikes, THEN use them to ride!

 

[ChopperDave]

You left coastists use chains for something else alltogether! Freak!

 

[motometal]

I find this idea about "keeping the rubber rings soft" somewhat humorous. Why do we not fret about keeping tires, swingarm bearing seals, steering head bearing seals, grips, your inflatable sheep "Dolly", or any other soft rubbery item soft and supple by spraying or rubbing some sort of goop on it? Modern rubber/plastic/polymer items don't just spontaneously dry out and fall apart, at least not until they are quite a few years old. I personally use WD-40, not on Dolly but on my o-ring chain, only after I wash the bike. This is not to soften the rings, but to prevent rust. And no, it doesn't attack the rubber o-rings! Who started that myth?

 

[Jaybird]

It 's not so much keeping the "soft", but rather keeping the bearing surfaces lubricated.
The rings see friction, as the roller chain constantly articulates. Without proper lubrication, the contact surfaces can become deformed, and become more prone to allowing contaminants in and pre-injected lube out.

And using a product like WD-40, there is also solvent being carried into the sealed area.
If it had anything in it that was good for the chains internal parts, that wouldn't be such a bad thing..but it doesn't. All it will help is to soften the internal lube, which could lead to the lube not lasting as long as intended. Or if a ring ever becomes slightly damages, the softened lube can come out faster.

You are making fairly "matter of fact" type statements, Scot...but can you tell me what material the ring chain you have on now uses for it's sealing rings?

There are scads of ring materials, and some are more prone to chemical attack than others.
Can you state to me that a neoprene sealing ring won't see any deformation or swelling from being in contact with stoddard solvent? It quite possibly can.
And when a ring of any material sees any swelling, it increases the pressure at the contact surface, and can help to degrade the seal faster.

Yes, there are high tech rings that fight attack from just about any product that is used on a dirtbike including gasoline (highly fluorinated fluoroelastomer rings [Viton ETP] for one)...but we must always assume that these type rings are NOT being used, as all ring chain mfg's recommend only using ring rated lubricants on their ring chains.

Using nothing at all is absolutely the worst thing to do. That will lead to the surfaces of the rings degrading fast. And can even create little channels in the rings surfaces that allow a perfect path for lube out and contaminants in.

BTW...most all the time when a ring is damaged from swell...you need measuring equipment to detect it. It's not something you can just look at and assess.

 

[motometal]

Technically you're probably right on all accounts, Jaybird. And as you know, I generally approach things from a technical or engineering standpoint, but I guess in this case by the time I even put any thought into chains and lubes, I had already accidently found a system that works, even though technically it isn't the best. It works very well for me on a practical basis. Minimal cost time and $$$ wise, with good if not great service life. Until they start making the little rings on my chain out of something that WD40 attacks, or change the WD40 formula, i'll probably just keep on with my less-than-optimal-but-works-for-me system. That doesn't mean it's right for everyone else, though.

I belong to a few other forums (yes, I am a forum wh0re), and on the street bike forums the chain lube issue has been debated at least as much. Different application, definitely, not as much dirt. Predictably, after a few posts debating the technical taboo of WD, it never fails that one or more people chime in about how they used nothing but a squirt here and there of WD, the chain was changed out at 15,000, 20,000 or even more miles, just for good measure, although it was still within specs.

 

[Jaybird]

You hear lots of anecdotes of folks who state their chain was a great peice of equipment, and lasted for umpteen thousands of miles, yet they claim their sprocekts were crap and wore out.

Knowing that the sprockets, especially on a street bike, will remain intact and serviceable until the point that the chain has elongated past 1-1.5%, I have to wonder if they know how to properly measure the chain for wear.

 

[motometal]

maybe they aren't sure how to measure, but I think most street bike owners are happy to get that kind of mileage out of the system, and would just replace the sprockets with the chain anyway. If they wanted the drive to last the life of the engine, they would have bought a shaft drive.

 

[ChopperDave]

If they wanted the drive to last the life of the engine, they would have bought a shaft drive.

...or a belt drive.

 

[BMWPower]

Has anyone here heard of tri-metal sprockets they have a life-time guarantee, and their titanium chain that is also ment to last for a very long time, anyone have experience with those products?

 

[Jaybird]

The tri-metal is a good sprocket. Very much overpriced, as Vic Krause now has the monopoly on them.

I used to sell them for $55 a pop...if that tells you anything.

 

[motometal]

titanium chain...I assume only the side plates are titanium, remainder being alloy steel?

 

[Nathan Rubin]

I think that it is time for "X" ring.
Little heavier than standard chain, but more reliable.

 

[Henka]

non O ring chain dont zap away all the bikes power (on smaller cc bikes) either (due to the friction of rubber against steel)

 

[riderdadof4]

If came with a 0-ring I put a o-ring back on! if came with standard I put standard back on.
dirt bikes I clean and lube with chain lube after each ride
and lube again before gets loaded in the truck. road bikes about once a month dependant on how much ridden, clean and then lube.I proberly over lube 'cause I always have oil spots on the fender swingarm etc. that I have to wipe off after the 1st ride.
check adjustment every time I lube even if didn't ride it between.
I have had to replace a chain only once!

 

[+30]

non

oring chains rub on my slider block and wear the masterlink to a knife edge cause they are wider. Non works fine for me.

 

[elcamino12sec]

Im poor and had to replace mine with a cheepo D.I.D. regular 35.00 unit. I have only used it for a day so I have no idea how it is going to hold up. When this one wears out I will replace it with an o-ring chain though, I have always had good luck with an RK o-ring.