"O" ring or non "O" ring chain?
- Thread starter a454elk
- Start date
- Jan 1, 2001
- 3,043
- 9
I don't know anything about this web site or the accuracy of the information, but i found this oring/non dyno comparison http://www.geocities.com/gtthunder.geo/chain.jpg .
It was at this site http://www.geocities.com/gtthunder.geo/testbed.html
It was at this site http://www.geocities.com/gtthunder.geo/testbed.html
dirt bike dave
Sponsoring Member
- May 3, 2000
- 5,348
- 3
Thats an interesting link and graph - I would have thought there would be a bigger difference (and maybe there is depending on chain brand and other variables).
FWIW, I have noticed that some o-ring chains seem to have less resistance than others when I spin the wheel by hand with the bike on a stand. For example, I had a well used, top of the line Regina o-ring that had noticeably less resistance than a brand new RK o-ring or DID x-ring. Couldn't feel a power difference when riding, though.
FWIW, I have noticed that some o-ring chains seem to have less resistance than others when I spin the wheel by hand with the bike on a stand. For example, I had a well used, top of the line Regina o-ring that had noticeably less resistance than a brand new RK o-ring or DID x-ring. Couldn't feel a power difference when riding, though.
Always take dyno charts with a grain of salt.
Many variables can effect the outcome of a run. There is a member here that has ran comparative dynos on standard vs ring chains and showed a difference of ~2HP. That is quite a bit of difference.
I agree that ring chains and standard chains have their places, I just believe that the standard is what should be used in most all riding situations. The ring chain is designed for use in high contamination areas, ie...mud and slop.
If a person has had the same ring chain on their bike for two years, how could they possibly be able to compare the feel of ride vs a standard chain?
If you do happen to take your ring chain off the bike, flex every link and see if they are all flexible and consistant. If there is any difference in feel of any link, then you have a chain that may well have a violated ring. It is so VERY EASY for a ring to tear or degrade, allowing dirt and water past the ring.
If you have a link that is sluggish, it is more than likely damaged.
Most of you know what I'm talking about when I say a "kinked up" or "sluggish" ring chain.
Now, take that kinked up ring chain and run a dyno run with it vs a standard chain of the same age and see what the results are. I guarantee the results will be dramaticically different than the above touted .3hp difference.
Not only will that kinkied up ring chain absolutely rob you of power, it will help to disentigrate your sprockets, much faster than they would have without the damaged ring chain being run.
Take your ring chain off and see if it is flexibile and consistant. If it is, then you probably practice good chain maitnenance. Even with practicing good maintenance on your chains, a ring chain can crap out on you. A standard chain is FAR more consistant.
BTW....don't have a dyno? Put your bike on the stand and spin the wheel with the ring chain. Now mount up the standard and spin the wheel. Can you feel the difference? If so, I would wager there is more than .3hp difference under power.
Many variables can effect the outcome of a run. There is a member here that has ran comparative dynos on standard vs ring chains and showed a difference of ~2HP. That is quite a bit of difference.
I agree that ring chains and standard chains have their places, I just believe that the standard is what should be used in most all riding situations. The ring chain is designed for use in high contamination areas, ie...mud and slop.
If a person has had the same ring chain on their bike for two years, how could they possibly be able to compare the feel of ride vs a standard chain?
If you do happen to take your ring chain off the bike, flex every link and see if they are all flexible and consistant. If there is any difference in feel of any link, then you have a chain that may well have a violated ring. It is so VERY EASY for a ring to tear or degrade, allowing dirt and water past the ring.
If you have a link that is sluggish, it is more than likely damaged.
Most of you know what I'm talking about when I say a "kinked up" or "sluggish" ring chain.
Now, take that kinked up ring chain and run a dyno run with it vs a standard chain of the same age and see what the results are. I guarantee the results will be dramaticically different than the above touted .3hp difference.
Not only will that kinkied up ring chain absolutely rob you of power, it will help to disentigrate your sprockets, much faster than they would have without the damaged ring chain being run.
Take your ring chain off and see if it is flexibile and consistant. If it is, then you probably practice good chain maitnenance. Even with practicing good maintenance on your chains, a ring chain can crap out on you. A standard chain is FAR more consistant.
BTW....don't have a dyno? Put your bike on the stand and spin the wheel with the ring chain. Now mount up the standard and spin the wheel. Can you feel the difference? If so, I would wager there is more than .3hp difference under power.
- Jan 1, 2001
- 3,043
- 9
I don't know beans about a dyno. I only posted the link because I spent some time to find it. I would bet money that 0.3 HP cannot be measured, with any certainty, on a dyno.
Ya know what.... I had to find out for myself...
I put my trusty, heavily modified, fire breathing Banshee on a Mustang dyno last night.
The results may surprise you...
X-Ring: 71.31 wheel hp
Standard: 72.13 wheel hp
I did that and decided that I needed to check that again... So I grabbed my son's well breathed on Honda TRX90 national quad. These results are really surprising...
O-Ring: 12.10 peak wheel hp
Standard: 13.22 peak wheel hp
Youre right, on somehting like the banshee, you might not notice the hp difference, but on the miniquad, you do notice 1.1 hp!!!! Ive paid a buttload of money in the past for an 8.5% hp gain!!!!!!
As I said before.... Im a standard chain guy for non-soupy condititions and will remain so until im shown that another way is better!!!!
Mark Chapman
I put my trusty, heavily modified, fire breathing Banshee on a Mustang dyno last night.
The results may surprise you...
X-Ring: 71.31 wheel hp
Standard: 72.13 wheel hp
I did that and decided that I needed to check that again... So I grabbed my son's well breathed on Honda TRX90 national quad. These results are really surprising...
O-Ring: 12.10 peak wheel hp
Standard: 13.22 peak wheel hp
Youre right, on somehting like the banshee, you might not notice the hp difference, but on the miniquad, you do notice 1.1 hp!!!! Ive paid a buttload of money in the past for an 8.5% hp gain!!!!!!
As I said before.... Im a standard chain guy for non-soupy condititions and will remain so until im shown that another way is better!!!!
Mark Chapman
yes, and on top of that, i'd be willing to believe that during these tests, the non-ringed chain is nice and clean and well lubed. In the real world, where we go out and ride for a few hours, mid way through the ride the chain is being lubed by a nice slurry of dirt, sand, and chain lube. Friction is increased, therefore power is down.
So, the dyno isn't representing typical "real world" conditions, is it?
Ok, if you are one of those anal people who ride for a short time then go back to your truck and spray the chain, I envy your patience and ambition.
So, the dyno isn't representing typical "real world" conditions, is it?
Ok, if you are one of those anal people who ride for a short time then go back to your truck and spray the chain, I envy your patience and ambition.
OK...so real world both chains see dirt.
Only if you use the wrong type of lubricant will you create a grinding compound. Using the proper lube means your chain will be dry while it is being protected from friction, therefore it doesn't collect the dirt and sand to make a grinding paste from.
Also in the real world, when you use the wrong type of lube, your ring chain will collect dirt and make a nice grinding paste as well as the standard chain...but the paste that is on the ring chain will help to ruin and/or tear the rings allowing dirt and water to get inside the friction area.
Even if it's just one ring that is violated...that one bad ring can lead to the whole chain and sprocket eating itself away prematurely. You can clean the standard chain that you used gooey crap lube on and it will be back to a good situation....the ring chain that got crap past the ring will remain violated since there is nothing you can do to revive the damage done. It only increasingly gets worse...and more than likely will have more rings violated in the near future.
Eddie, nobody claimed it took 2 hp to move the chain...a dyno run only shows that energy creation is less with the ring chain. Forget about the dyno...spin your wheel with both types of chain on and honestly tell me there is no difference.
Only if you use the wrong type of lubricant will you create a grinding compound. Using the proper lube means your chain will be dry while it is being protected from friction, therefore it doesn't collect the dirt and sand to make a grinding paste from.
Also in the real world, when you use the wrong type of lube, your ring chain will collect dirt and make a nice grinding paste as well as the standard chain...but the paste that is on the ring chain will help to ruin and/or tear the rings allowing dirt and water to get inside the friction area.
Even if it's just one ring that is violated...that one bad ring can lead to the whole chain and sprocket eating itself away prematurely. You can clean the standard chain that you used gooey crap lube on and it will be back to a good situation....the ring chain that got crap past the ring will remain violated since there is nothing you can do to revive the damage done. It only increasingly gets worse...and more than likely will have more rings violated in the near future.
Eddie, nobody claimed it took 2 hp to move the chain...a dyno run only shows that energy creation is less with the ring chain. Forget about the dyno...spin your wheel with both types of chain on and honestly tell me there is no difference.
bclapham said:
As it should! :laugh:
This has been a good thread for discussion.
For the record, Jaybird sells both ring and non-ring chains, so I don't think that he is biased one way or another. I would think that he would actually make more money off the ring chain because it costs more.
The bottom line (as has been stated before): Use the right chain for the conditions.
or better yet, use the chain that the company with the best advertising and propoganda sells. its your choice, as always. i prefer non-ringed for non-mud/slop/toxic waste racing and ringed chains for races through slop.
as always, your findings may differ.
mark chapman
as always, your findings may differ.
mark chapman
Jaybird said:
Take a quality O-ring chain that is HOT and compare it with std chain; hot O-ring loss is so small that u would not need a forum to answer the question if u were fast enuff to notice.
Save yourself a LOT of grief and $$$. Go O-ring.
And do NOT oil it, as if the rings are doing their job, then no lube can get inside them in the first place. (This is according to Dave the Renthal rep, but he could be wrong, as could I after only 23yrs of riding...)
Not ony do the rings need lube to remain supple, you need to lube the friction point between the bushing and roller, as well as the roller and sprocket tooth.
Dave the Renthal Rep is on drugs.
With a few more years of riding, you will catch on to some of this stuff, tx.
Dave the Renthal Rep is on drugs.
With a few more years of riding, you will catch on to some of this stuff, tx.
I had the same exact problem with my 125. I don't know why the manufacures don't give a little more clearance. It's seems pretty obvious most people are running ring chains now, I even got one LOL! No more trying to lube my chain during riding breaks!wang said:
My X ring chain was lightly touching the case enough so I could see the scratch mark on it. And there does not seem to be enough room to put a spacer on a KX, even if there is I don't like the idea of off-setting the chain. I talked to a guy at a local dealer about it and he told me the engine case is quite thick at that spot and I could use a dremel to take some material off of the case. I took about .020-.030 off around the countershaft sprocket and the problem is history. I don't want to recommend anyone trying this without being certain it is safe, but it worked for me. :think:
I installed a Primary Drive X ring chain. These are very reasonably priced. But I'm not sure if they are in the same ball park quality wise as Regina, RK, etc. I've only ridden a couple of times since I put the chain on. Does anyone have any experience with this brand?
